WWLXXI: Something in the Night (Attempt #2)

[alonariel]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Is it paranoid of me that I think he really means ‘make it a good one’? ‘Cause I do. Of course a Nog wolf would want me to dream an innocent, and I know he’d be clever enough to word it like that so he looked good but was actually being sneaky. Thoughts on this?

From what Lari has told me, Nog is very skilled whether he's ordo, gifted or a wolf. So not sure here, but he did accuse me of similar wordplay, and now that you've pointed it out, I would like to hear his explanation of it. I agree with you about not wanting to vote for him until he's had a say about the suspicions against him because we really, really can't afford to lynch another ordo with how low the numbers are right now.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

For my last post of the night, I would like to point out that Inzil's suspicion of me is based on me referring to my reputation as a psychic. That is all.

[Lariren Shadow]

I'm going to post this and probably not post until tomorrow morning and then vote, because I have to drive back to LA, and that's a fun six hour drive.

To be honest, I have no idea. Most people have either been silent or saying things that, while not entirely suspicious, are not entirely clear of suspicion. So I guess I'll try to same something, but I'm gonna be honest here, my list of no reads is a lot longer than my list of reads.

A is for alona who is being too brash and outspoken to be (presumably) anything but innocent. As a wolf she plays safe and quiet. As an ordo she plays loud.

In is for Inzil who is my PM buddy.

Iz is for Izzy who hasn't said a lot and I have absolutely no idea.

N is for Nog who is way quiet than I've ever seen him. I know he says he has RL things and I'm not saying that's an excuse for his quietness, but even when he had RL things before, he would be up til 5 AM posting huge epic long posts and threatened with mod fire if he didn't sleep. So does this mean that RL is really this hard or is this how Nog-wolf plays?

Sa is for Sally who I see no reason to doubt.

Sh is for Shasta who I've seen in RL how tricky he can be, but I still have no idea.

W is for Wilwa who is on Sally's no vote list. I really have nothing else on her, either. She's been un-outstanding, and I mean that in the nicest possible way.

I'm of terrible no use, mostly because I seem to not know anything that's going on in this game. Blech.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Abigail's battery's about dead.

What happened to Hunter?

So I have to go off to Church, I'm just popping on really quick. Once I get back I'll have the whole afternoon to read back through everything again and hopefully my list will be epic. Sally dear, you won't have it by mid day though, maybe closer to 65% into the day.

I also have a staff party to go to tonight so I'll be gone for a good chunk of time, and then come back again, probably just in time to vote.

[Nogrod]

Okay. Back to read. Starting from yesterDay from when I left.

Sorry. My days (RL) have been "wake up early, head to work, go non-stop 12-14 hours, come home 10-11PM..." So I haven't actually been able to spend too much with this game.

But I should have some time toDay... well, into reading first. But I'll be around if anyone wishes to discuss this or that.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Lari

N is for Nog who is way quiet than I've ever seen him. I know he says he has RL things and I'm not saying that's an excuse for his quietness, but even when he had RL things before, he would be up til 5 AM posting huge epic long posts and threatened with mod fire if he didn't sleep. So does this mean that RL is really this hard or is this how Nog-wolf plays?

I can post up to 5AM - even 7 AM - when I have a day off that day, like a weekend or vacation, and the game is interesting. Sadly I've had early morning calls every day this time (weekend included), but I've still posted into 1 or 2 AM... Sorry to disappoint you, but even I need some sleep if I have a 14-hour workday to look for.

Okay. I'll answer Sally's (mis)analysis first and then start looking for the wolves.

[Nogrod]

For D1 (bolding mine)

Originally Posted by Sally

It seems to me he’s giving the people in his first list a free pass simply because he knows they’re trying to make him happy. He knows they’re trying to butter up, and he buys it without batting an eyelash or an orange. Such logic can be deadly in Werewolf.

What? C'mon! If someone plays on D1, I like it. And you know it. I never vote for those who PLAY on D1 - unless there is a strong enough reason for it (then I will vote for an active player to be sure).

We all know that it is easier to suspect someone who says a lot (not just banters but really says something). That's the sad fate of our active players who try to contribute on D1 - so I will stand beside anyone who contributes and wish to do away with slackers on D1, unless there is a strong suspicion and yadayadayada.

So what is that "buttering up" thing there? I just don't get it. I said they are "doing something" eg. contributing, trying to get some discussion rolling, making points, not just hunkering down, not just trying to be as uncontroversial as possible... that's what I think everyone should do already on D1! I don't think any one of them was active "just to butter me up". That would be preposterous indeed.

Originally Posted by Sally

And of course now he retracts his earlier statement, or at least clarifies. He doesn’t trust all these people, he just doesn’t think they should die that Day. Completely different!

That is not a retraction, but you cancall it a clarification. The bolded part of what you said is exactly what I meant. What I said earlier was that they "are trying to do something which makes me appreciate them and I'm not going to vote anyone of them." That is not completely different but the same thing (clarified). I said I appreaciated their way of play (as it was D1) and would not vote for them. I never said I thought them innocents.

If I wouldn't believe that you're the seer Sally, I would be really suspicious of your twisting of my words.

Originally Posted by Sally

And then he votes on nothing. Nothing, and he even admits it. Also, I’ve never known Nog to be so apologetic when he votes someone.

There is a simple explanation: I have never been forced to vote with that little stuff to read / time to use for thinking about what to do. I was really feeling insecure there. Although with hindsight I think my guts were not that bad after all... but that's another story to be discussed later.

For D2

Originally Posted by Sally

And....erm, thanks for losing me my bargaining “guess who I dreamed on Night One” chip. I’m not sure an ordo would say this sort of thing while the seer’s still alive. I mean fine, analyze all you want when I’m dead but until then don’t try to tell me who I dreamt. I could have bluffed quite easily that I’d dreamt someone who was alive, thus making the wolves nervous, but now it’s useless.

I'm sorry to have blown your scheme, but here you must look at the mirror as well and bear at least part of the burden yourself. Now when you claimed you had dreamt of two wolves and said you would not come back as you were annoyed with us, you had also left a list where you put me and Inzil as the two you "could easily vote". So as I needed to go to sleep and could not affect the last hours - and not being sure you came back to say you were not serious - some could have voted for me, an innocent, because of your list & "revealment of two wolves".

Had you not made that list I wouldn't have said that, or had I been able to stay up for the rest of the Day...

Originally Posted by Sally

Now that we know Lottie to be innocent I find this a bit interesting. I’m sure it was just a still relatively new Lottie being inquisitive (bless her) but for Nog to bring this up makes me shifty toward him, as saying that makes her look bad.

We know Lottie was innocent... now. But we didn't know it back then. I didn't. But had I been lynched or Night-killed that could have been a piece of information that might have been valuable - and none else but I had it. For me her inquisitiveness especially on you Sally that Night and the fact that the wolves tried to kill you seemed suspicious enough to voice it.

Originally Posted by Sally

I also feel like he’s gone fishin’ with the last statement.

Sorry. I was trying to find out for myself - and to you all others - whether what I said about Lottie's PM's were significant or not. I mean, to me it was odd she was only interested of Sally (remember we didn't know you are the seer) and then Sally was about to be killed. So I was interested whether others talked about it as well eg. whether I was the only one who didn't think Sally's actions were something special or odd.

Originally Posted by Sally on my suspicion on Rikae

Again, he’s making a case against a now-known innocent. I don’t like his track record for doing that.

Me neither.

Originally Posted by Sally

Aaaaand again. He’s focusing solely on Alona, and I’d really like to know why.

You just complained I suspected Lottie and Rikae...

But to be honest, I had no time. I had to pick something that to me looked suspicious and try to see whether there was anything in there that would comfirm my suspicions or not. With alona there really was - and is. I really don't understand why you people don't see it. What she said to Rikae is unthinkable from an innocent mouth. None of us innocents knows anyone of the others to be on our side so we just can't "slip" that kind of thought as it is not a possible thought - at least early on D2 regarding someone who had posted like four posts or something.

If you don't actually know someone to be on your side you just can't "accidentally" say "it's great we're on the same side this time"!!! But if you're a wolf who needs to deceive you could in theory make a major slip like that. It is quite odd a wolf would be that thoughtless, but it would be even more implausible for an innocent to say that!

[Lariren Shadow]

Yes Nog, and now that I see that I still have no idea about anyone.

Ok I have to vote now because I'm making no promises about even being here for deadline. There's some rain in the forecast and I'm not taking chances. We had three people, I believe, who didn't vote yesterDay.

So I'm not voting Sally. Mostly because I'm inclined to believe her. I'm not voting Nog because if he is innocent he could sniff out a wolf. And we have to get a wolf toDay, unless the Ranger was daring last Night. Because we will be equal toMorrow.

So that leaves Alona, Inzil, Izzy, Shasta, and Wilwa as possible votes. Not voting Alona because I still think she's playing way to loud to be a wolf. Her wolf style is quiet and on the sidelines. Wilwa was on Sally's no vote list yesterDay and I have nothing really on her so I'm not really ok with voting for her.

And that leaves Inzil, Izzy, and Shasta. I have no idea. Do I believe what I've been told? Well, I'm left with three. And there are three wolves. Which means odds are that one of them is a wolf. I know Shasta is busy but he could also just be flying under the radar. It could happen. And out of all of them, I think I'm going to go with Shasta.

++Shasta

And this time I do want to vote him.

[alonariel]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But to be honest, I had no time. I had to pick something that to me looked suspicious and try to see whether there was anything in there that would comfirm my suspicions or not. With alona there really was - and is. I really don't understand why you people don't see it. What she said to Rikae is unthinkable from an innocent mouth. None of us innocents knows anyone of the others to be on our side so we just can't "slip" that kind of thought as it is not a possible thought - at least early on D2 regarding someone who had posted like four posts or something.

If you don't actually know someone to be on your side you just can't "accidentally" say "it's great we're on the same side this time"!!! But if you're a wolf who needs to deceive you could in theory make a major slip like that. It is quite odd a wolf would be that thoughtless, but it would be even more implausible for an innocent to say that!

Seriously, Nog, if our Seer is able to hone in on so much suspicious activity from you and you explain it away with a need for sleep (an explanation I used for my flipflop during the debate with Lottie) mis-reading Lottie (something I admitted to), and simply "gut" feeling when voting for me (my main explanation for my comment about Rikae), why am I so much more suspicious than you are? Your single-mindedness is getting to me, because yeah, the wolves won't win immediately if we lynch an ordo today, but it certainly doesn't put the village in a good position.

And let's be honest, I'm not a good enough player to escape the Seer's notice, convince both her and other players I'm innocent and rack up so much suspicion against you in the process. Unless this whole thing is ordo-on-ordo and I really am that clumsy. This is only my third online WW game, I'm still learning. And I still make slips like the one I made when referring to Rikae, though I didn't think of it as a slip at the time. Obviously. I'll say this, too, if I were a wolf this game, Lari would have been the first Night kill, end of story.


Side note: I'm probably taking this more personal than normal, but that's mainly due to RL. I'm not exactly in my best frame of mind at the moment. Probably shouldn't even be playing, but it's a great escape and I need one of those right now.

[Nogrod]

Here's the votes from D1 & D2. Known innocents are bolded.
(EDIT: the X in front of Izzy & Lari are the "wrong deadline votes)

D1

Nog -> alona
wilwa -> Sally
Lottie -> Inzil
Rikae -> Glirdy
Inzil -> Lottie
X Izzy -> Shasta
X Lari -> Shasta2
Morsul -> Glirdy2
(Lari -- Shasta? = not valid)
Glirdy -> Morsul
alona -> Morsul2
Shasta -> Morsul3

hunter reveal
Glirdan target

Sally -> Shasta3

flip coin: Morsul dies -> Glirdy dies

D2

Nog -> alona
Lari -> Lottie
- .10 wilwa -> Shasta
- .04 Inzil -> Lottie2
- .02 Lottie -> alona2
- .02 Rikae -> Nog
- .01 Izzy -> wilwa

Did not vote: alona, Sally, Shasta

Seemingly a flip of coin once again? -> Lottie dies


Interestingly the three who didn't vote on D2 were the first to post toDay...

[wilwarin538]

So I re-read from the beginning and quoted a bunch of stuff and here they are with my random thoughts, and then a list:

Originally Posted by alonariel

I'm not having the best of times right now, so I'm just going to vote and go to bed. For reasons stated earlier:

++Morsul

I dislike this vote. Her reasons were that she didn't like Morsul's "out of nowhere" vote for Glirdan, but when he voted he was under the impression that DL was fast approaching, and it was kinda a rush in the moment thing. Lari's vote was the same, but Alona found nothing wrong with it.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Being innocent and single gets you no action. (Heh. I see what I did there.)

I just think this is funny cause Sally and I ended up stranded in the same boat at the same time.

Originally Posted by alonariel

Plain ordo like last game, I'm afraid. I'm actually surprised the wolves didn't go after me Night 1 - which might exclude Rikae, Wilwa, Lari and Shasta since they were present at the Bostonmoot games

This whole post bugs me too. I don't really get why she thought she was a logical wolf choice.

Originally Posted by alonariel

Rikae: Admittedly scares me (in a good way, I think), so I'm glad to have her on my side in this game.

I'm aware this has been mentioned a lot already. Now if Rikae had ended up guilty I would be quite convinced that Alona is too. Rikae being innocent just makes me confused about this. I don't really know...

Originally Posted by alonariel

Okay, but here's what worries me: your surety that Sally's a "known" innocent - when in fact, only Morsul and Glirdan are the "known" innocents.

Why are you so certain of Sally's innocence, Lottie?

Wow I quoted Alona alot....this is weird cause it was pretty obvious Sally was innocent. And it was explained to her a couple times but she still seemed to want to shed doubt on it.

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

I disagree that it would be "in the wolves interest to (at least in the absence of a better kill) get rid of any unwanted attention." in regards to killing their lovers. It seems like a mighty large trail that they would be leaving behind. I can't imagine them being such generous (and obvious,) Hansel and Gretels.

Well I agree with this statement, but it's just the Hansel and Gretel thing, made me nostalgic.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Also, she can steer us away from the Ranger, but she apparently can't lead us to a wolf at the moment. I don't want to lynch the Ranger, but I don't want an ordo either.

This still bothers me. I'd happily die if it meant the Ranger could survive, especially since our Seer needs him so much. Yes wolves are our priority, but Sally can give us an advantage over the wolves, therefore keeping the Ranger alive keeps her alive and stays on track with our objective. I don't really get why he objected to this.

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

A flaw I see on that plan Wilwa is that it won't give us much information to go on toMorrow. If the person picked by Sally is not a wolf, then I imagine the wolves will have no problem in going along with it. I imagine they probably won't have much problem with it, even if it is a wolf - so they could try and blend in with the crowd.

Lynching a wolf is priority. If we can't get one, an ordo is better than a gifted.

She kinda goes against the idea like Inzil, but then her last sentence makes up for it, so that's fine actually, when I quoted this I hadn't noticed that last part.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Also, I kind of want to know how everyone feels about their lovers.

Mine was awesome, may he rest in peace.

Sally: I don't think the Ranger needs to hint to you whether they protected you or not, too risky for him, cause he needs to stay alive as long as possible so he can protect you as long as possible. Oh, and if you didn't dream a wolf last Night then I'm gonna vote for whoever you vote for anyway, cause with our numbers dwindling I don't want to risk a last minute bandwaggon that kills our Ranger, cause then you're definitely dead toNight.

List? Ok then...

Nogrod: not too too much from him, but what I have seen I've agreed with or at least understood his logica and I don't see anything wrong with him

Alona: I want to trust her, and there's something nagging at the back of my head that is making me want to trust her, but there's also a lot of stuff that she's said that just urks me the wrong way (see above). So I'm on the fence here, it's like my half of me sees the logic that she could be guilty, then another half is like "no no, she's good, trust your gut"...so yeah, I don't know

Lari: uhm, kinda under my radar, but nothing stood out so I'm good here for now

Izzy: so yesterday she said something like she didn't get my whole Shasta deal, so I asked what she meant by that, and all she did was quote what I had said, she didn't really say what she found wrong with it, and then voted for me cause I didn't explain my reasoning (when I couldn't explain, since she never really told me what needed explaining)....so I don't like that, the vote itself I get, cause Shasta was a kinda rushed flimsy thing from me, but just that one part bugs me...I don't however have anything else against her at the moment, so this is not enough to go on, off this alone I would not vote for her

Inzil: ahh, my dear ex-lover, I'm really starting to suspect him. His comment that I quoted earlier was odd, and he at one point said I was "fixated" on the revealing lovers thing, when I actually had just made an off handed joking (only Lottie seems to pick up on the joking part) suggestion, and then others took it serious and actually followed through, so I wouldn't say I was fixated. Anyway....yeah, a few things here in there, I'll try to take a closer look later.

Shasta: Yes, I voted him yesterDay, yes the reasons were flimsy, and no I don't really have anything new to add about him right now.

Hmm. Need a break, the whole read through took me like an hour. Be back later.

x'ed with a few people