Dwarves and the northern war of the rings

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by alatar

Knowing what they knew then, that the Rings were tricksy, and though they bred gold, bred ill much more, would they have taken a Ring, and if so, would they have made use of it?

I have no doubt they would have used it. Balin had gone to Moria in the hope of finding the Last of the Seven, taking along a good portion of Dáin's people. Glóin was rather dismayed to learn it had been taken from Thráin by Sauron. I don't think the Dwarves ascribed many of their woes to the Seven.

[CSteefel]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I have no doubt they would have used it. Balin had gone to Moria in the hope of finding the Last of the Seven, taking along a good portion of Dáin's people. Glóin was rather dismayed to learn it had been taken from Thráin by Sauron. I don't think the Dwarves ascribed many of their woes to the Seven.

In this regard, I have always thought it a little strange that Gandalf failed to tell the Dwarves that he found Thrain in Dol Goldur. This was years before the adventure with Smaug...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Balin had gone to Moria in the hope of finding the Last of the Seven, taking along a good portion of Dáin's people.

One note at least to this: as for somebody wondering why did Balin go to Moria in search for the Ring, Balin was among the last who have seen Thráin alive, he was with him when he disappeared from the camp. And so, he of all people was probably prone to believe, even if others would have told him that he's not going to find any ring in Moria (of course, it'll be a difference, Gandalf never told him personally, though who knows if he would believe even then...) - because "Come on, I was there personally with Thráin until his last moments, I haven't seen that he would have had any Ring!"

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

One note at least to this: as for somebody wondering why did Balin go to Moria in search for the Ring, Balin was among the last who have seen Thráin alive, he was with him when he disappeared from the camp. And so, he of all people was probably prone to believe, even if others would have told him that he's not going to find any ring in Moria (of course, it'll be a difference, Gandalf never told him personally, though who knows if he would believe even then...) - because "Come on, I was there personally with Thráin until his last moments, I haven't seen that he would have had any Ring!"

I think that last bit is rather weak!
Surely Balin would not discart the words of Gandalf as nonsense so easily. I know dwarves can be stubborn, but if Gandalf had told Balin that he knew for a fact that the ring was lost and he could present a reasonable case, then surely Balin would belive him. After all Balin seemed rather resonable. (Atleast to me)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I think that last bit is rather weak!
Surely Balin would not discart the words of Gandalf as nonsense so easily. I know dwarves can be stubborn, but if Gandalf had told Balin that he knew for a fact that the ring was lost and he could present a reasonable case, then surely Balin would belive him. After all Balin seemed rather resonable. (Atleast to me)

He seemed so to me too (though his decision to go to Moria was one of the weaker ones). But I wasn't referring to Gandalf then (that was in the brackets - I said that he would likely follow Gandalf had Gandalf told him, though "who knows") - I was referring to perhaps other Dwarves, like Dáin or somebody, who would be wise and telling Balin that it's unlikely to find the Ring in Moria.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

He seemed so to me too (though his decision to go to Moria was one of the weaker ones). But I wasn't referring to Gandalf then (that was in the brackets - I said that he would likely follow Gandalf had Gandalf told him, though "who knows") - I was referring to perhaps other Dwarves, like Dáin or somebody, who would be wise and telling Balin that it's unlikely to find the Ring in Moria.

Okay Okay, give me a break I haven't posted regularly in books for years.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I have no doubt they would have used it. Balin had gone to Moria in the hope of finding the Last of the Seven, taking along a good portion of Dáin's people. Glóin was rather dismayed to learn it had been taken from Thráin by Sauron. I don't think the Dwarves ascribed many of their woes to the Seven.

Note that Balin went off some 25-30 years before the Council of Elrond. Any chance that the Dwarves reconsidered the use of Rings between then and then? And were those that stayed with Dain (as opposed to those that went off with Balin) counted amongst 'the faithful' in that they chose not to attempt to secure wealth by unnatural means?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by alatar

Note that Balin went off some 25-30 years before the Council of Elrond. Any chance that the Dwarves reconsidered the use of Rings between then and then? And were those that stayed with Dain (as opposed to those that went off with Balin) counted amongst 'the faithful' in that they chose not to attempt to secure wealth by unnatural means?

Glóin could be thought of as 'faithful', and he posited that the Seven could be used for good against Sauron.

Other rings there may be, less treacherous that might be used in our need. The Seven are lost to us--if Balin has not found the ring of Thrór, which was the last; naught has been heard of it since Thrór perished in Moria.

And this after he had sat through much of the Council of Elrond and had been told the history of the Great Rings. He knew Sauron's influence on the Seven was considerable, but still he lamented the loss of Thrór's ring.

'Ah, alas!' cried Glóin. When will the day come of our revenge?'

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Glóin could be thought of as 'faithful', and he posited that the Seven could be used for good against Sauron.

That's what is stated, and we can interpret as you intend, but not sure how he or the Dwarves meant to use a Dwarven Ring against Sauron. They may have been able to breed gold, but don't see how that would have been much use in this war.

Another way of interpreting what Glóin meant is that he stated the obvious - the Dwarves had no Rings to kick into the war, but maybe others, such as his hosts, had some that might be useful. Think that he was being political.

And this after he had sat through much of the Council of Elrond and had been told the history of the Great Rings. He knew Sauron's influence on the Seven was considerable, but still he lamented the loss of Thrór's ring.

Glóin may have been like the rest of his race, somewhat overly possessive and slow in forgetting even the smallest grievance.