Elves and Gondor

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by JeffF.

Don't forget the wine of Dorwinion (Northeast of the Sea of Ruhn) which was valued by Thradnuil's elves (from the Hobbit).

There must have been much overseas trade by Gondor (with whom I can't speculate) in order for a powerful people like the Corsairs of Umbar to pirate from.

Yep, Dorwinion is quite interesting place by the way, though I wonder whether by the time of the War of the Ring it wasn't either ruled by the Easterlings, or directly taken from them by Bardings. But I was referring to the major trade routes, this was probably just a very small one. Anyway, we are getting off topic... but the question of Umbar is actually interesting, it would maybe do for its own thread.

[mark12_30]

Having read the whole thread... I'm going to go back to the elf-friend theory. Haldir spoke Westron with somebody in order togather his news. Or did he always and only eavesdrop?

The borders of Lorien were well protected, and one way or the other, trespassers would be dealt with. What constitues a trespasser? one who comes without permission, or perhaps with intent to do harm. Lorien rarely invites guests. Did they even invite anybody? maybe not. So maybe Haldir mostly met folks on the fringes.

In the west, Gildor knew Bilbo. If you had asked Whil Whitfoot if the Shire had contacts with the elves, he would have frowned, hoped that the Tooks had been behaving lately, and said No, except for maybe that fool Bilbo. Officially there aer no dealings. Unless it's them moonstruck Tooks....

"Frodo went tramping all over the Shire with them; but more often he wandered by himself, and to the amazement of sensible folk he was sometimes seen far from home walking in the hills and woods under the starlight. Merry and Pippin suspected that he visited the Elves at times, as Bilbo had done." --The Shadow of the Past

"There were rumours of strange things happening in the world outside; and as Gandalf had not at that time appeared or sent any message for several years, Frodo gathered all the news he could. Elves, who seldom walked in the Shire, could now be seen passing westward through the woods in the evening, passing and not returning; but they were leaving Middle-earth and were no longer concerned with its troubles. There were, however, dwarves on the road in unusual numbers. The ancient East-West Road ran through the Shire to its end at the Grey Havens, and dwarves had always used it on their way to their mines in the Blue Mountains. They were the hobbits’ chief source of news from distant parts – if they wanted any: as a rule dwarves said little and hobbits asked no more. But now Frodo often met strange dwarves of far countries, seeking refuge in the West. They were troubled, and some spoke in whispers of the Enemy and of the Land of Mordor." --The Shadow of the Past

Little of all this, of course, reached the ears of ordinary hobbits. But even the deafest and most stay-at-home began to hear queer tales... --The Shadow of the Past

‘Yes, it is Elves,’ said Frodo. ‘One can meet them sometimes in the Woody End. They don’t live in the Shire, but they wander into it in Spring and Autumn, out of their own lands away beyond the Tower Hills...." --Three is Company

Elves, from away beyond the Tower Hills, wander. Spring and Fall. That's enough for many many fanfictions right there...
Lorien elves wander much much less if at all. .... except for Haldir and his ilk?

‘Welcome!’ the Elf then said again in the Common Language, speaking slowly. ‘We seldom use any tongue but our own; for we dwell now in the heart of the forest, and do not willingly have dealings with any other folk. Even our own kindred in the North are sundered from us. But there are some of us still who go abroad (where?) for the gathering of news (from whom?) and the watching of our enemies (which ones?), and they speak the languages of other lands (plural! Not just Westron?) I am one. Haldir is my name. My brothers, Rúmil and Orophin, speak little of your tongue. (But what other tongues do they speak? Any?)
‘But we have heard rumours of your coming, for the messengers of Elrond passed by Lórien on their way home up the Dimrill Stair. We had not heard of hobbits, or halflings, for many a long year, and did not know that any yet dwelt in Middle-earth. --Lothlorien

(Oh, come on! Been living under a rock? Anyone who knows Elves that travel westward to Mithlond knows the road goes through the Shire. Elrond has always known about them; Galadriel certainly knew about them; Gandalf in the White Council knows about them; it's the Rangers' job to guard the West, including Hobbits, both in the Shire and in Bree. Exactly where does Haldir get his news from? Not anybody that knows of Hobbits! So doesn't that leave Gondor and Rohan and... maybe Laketown? Who else?


The more I read all this, the more I am reminded of Littlemanpoet's old thread, "It Feels Different Near The Shire." He has a point. Faerie in the northwest ebbs and flows and blows on the wind. Rivendell is not so far away, neither are the Tower Hills, Elves pass by occasionally, those rangers know more than they say, foxes talk, and old Tom is between the Old Forest and the Downs. What's a Riverdaughter? Whatever they are, Tom found one. Even the common Hobbits can disappear in a twinkle when someone clumsy like you or I comes by making a noise like a thousand elephants which they can hear a mile off.

Gondor is isolated. Are there elf-friends living there? I cannot believe that there are none. But they aren't ruling the city, either. They are fringy, and they know how to keep quiet. Perhaps they've been told to keep quiet if they ever want to see an elf again. (Those who have been to Faerie and grown as a result, keep it a secret; that's part of it. How can you share that with someone who hasn't been? See Smith of Wootten Major.)