What would the ring tempt you with?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I guess the main problem with the Ring is really that it will eventually turn everybody's best intentions (if they have them and don't simply want just the power and wealth in the first place) to bad ends. Or not even ends, but also means already. And thinking that you would be able to use it and NOT become a Dark Lord is the Ring's trick in itself. It is just impossible, like Eönwë has very well put it, and Lommy as well.

To me this has always smelled like the lord Acton (1834–1902) speaking... "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely". And looking at Tolkien's worldview and his time lord Acton would have been a person he knew about and agreed with. So the Ring is the emblem of power, the possibility of gaining power which then corrupts you - and with the Ring, "quite absolutely"...

Thence the heavy-hearted notes by Tolkien with Gandalf saying he'd love to do good but fears the power that might corrupt him whilst claiming the power to actually deliver the good?

Just a wild suggestion: maybe Tolkien saw what tickled the intellectuals in Germany during the twenties and thirties and how "right" they were in calling for conservative and nationalistic values (which Tolkien shared) in comparison to the technologically driven capitalism of the US & GB at one hand and collectivism of the Soviet Union (which both Tolkien as well disliked) on the other hand? But still, in the midst of that he was able to see that a kind of aristocratic system or revolution that could fight agaisnt those two great wheels of history would betray their children in the end anyway even if it was just trying to defend the "good things" against the "evil"? So, to become a Gandalf or Galadriel one should resist the temptation to try and mold the world towards the good with power?

Heh, I'm probably babbling right now... Let's see if I can make sense of what I'm trying to say tomorrow.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Just a wild suggestion: maybe Tolkien saw what tickled the intellectuals in Germany during the twenties and thirties and how "right" they were in calling for conservative and nationalistic values (which Tolkien shared) in comparison to the technologically driven capitalism of the US & GB at one hand and collectivism of the Soviet Union (which both Tolkien as well disliked) on the other hand? But still, in the midst of that he was able to see that a kind of aristocratic system or revolution that could fight agaisnt those two great wheels of history would betray their children in the end anyway even if it was just trying to defend the "good things" against the "evil"? So, to become a Gandalf or Galadriel one should resist the temptation to try and mold the world towards the good with power?

Heh, I'm probably babbling right now... Let's see if I can make sense of what I'm trying to say tomorrow.

Okay, it took me more than one reading and at first I probably understood your post completely wrong, but I believe I got it right in the end. Anyway, I am not sure if I think Tolkien's thought would be like this, or not so specifically aimed as this, as the thing you mention is just one particular aspect derived from what I believe is more complex point behind the story.

If I were to speak for myself, the story of the Ring had for me always much deeper and much more general points in this aspect. Simply saying that power itself never achieves the victory, if one uses it as a path to some goal, because the path matters as much as the goal does. And that's what is always forgotten and what keeps being forgotten all the time, and that's what the Ring-bearing Gandalf or Galadriel would forget. That's what Saruman did forget (even if he remained true to his goal, to get M-E rid of the threat of Sauron): "We can keep our thoughts in our hearts, deploring maybe evils done by the way, but approving the high and ultimate purpose: Knowledge, Rule, Order; all the things that we have so far striven in vain to accomplish, hindered rather than helped by our weak or idle friends. There need not be, there would not be, any real change in our designs, only in our means." Which was exactly why Gandalf refused. Many would not agree. But it is obvious that it works like that, even if we look at examples from our own history - no real victory, no real freedom in matters comes if it is not mutually approved and wished for by everybody and not forced upon them, even if that were "for the greater good" or "for their own good". And that is exactly why the real changes come so slowly, so slow that often one feels like "now I would just put the Ring on and change it in an instance". And that's why this "Gandalf-ish" and "Galadriel-ish" question of the Ring is actual even now and all the time on. And it's too easy to fool oneself and say "I would never succumb" and put the Ring on to use it.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

And it's too easy to fool oneself and say "I would never succumb" and put the Ring on to use it.

By putting it on, you've already succumbed to the Ring.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

By putting it on, you've already succumbed to the Ring.

Well that's just what I meant. But I was referring to the classic way in which for example Boromir or Denethor seem to present their taking of the Ring "oh, I will just put it on for a while, win the war against Sauron, and then of course everything will be okay and I will gladly return it".

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Well that's just what I meant. But I was referring to the classic way in which for example Boromir or Denethor seem to present their taking of the Ring "oh, I will just put it on for a while, win the war against Sauron, and then of course everything will be okay and I will gladly return it".

I understood what you meant and were referring to, I was just pointing that out.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Just a wild suggestion: maybe Tolkien saw what tickled the intellectuals in Germany during the twenties and thirties and how "right" they were in calling for conservative and nationalistic values (which Tolkien shared) in comparison to the technologically driven capitalism of the US & GB at one hand and collectivism of the Soviet Union (which both Tolkien as well disliked) on the other hand?

If you mean what I think you mean, isn't it ironic that those intellectuals (some of them, at least - Gottfried Benn or Heidegger, e.g.) ended up falling for a regime that, beneath its veneer of conservative and nationalistic values, was just as technologically driven and collectivistic as the alternatives, not to mention presuming to style itself 'socialist' while actually protecting the interests of big capital as long as its owners weren't jewish?

Back on topic - what would the Ring tempt me with? For starters, I'd like to be able to travel to all the places on the world that I'd like to see, visit all the great museums and read all the books that never quite made it to the top of my reading list. I guess I'd probably need more than a single lifetime to do all this, so the artificial longevity that the Ring brings would come in quite handy.
As for bigger issues - I'd like to see the world saved, of course, but I think the Ring would have to work hard to convince me I've got the master plan how to go about it. I admit, however, that from time to time I have those fantasies about making some folk pay for their dirty work, as Sam Gamgee said to Galadriel. In those moods, I wouldn't mind a chance to put some of our politicians and big businessmen before a revolutionary tribunal and make them look down the barrels of a firing quad - just to give 'em a proper scare, of course; once they'd fouled their underwear, I'd be quite content to pardon them to some sentence of a more pedagogic purpose: like having to do some honest, useful work for a change, or subsisting on the income of a single mother on dole. Now that would be something the Ring could work with; and like Galadriel, I'm afraid I wouldn't stop with that.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I genuinely think I would be a Faramir and refuse the Ring. I have no interest in wealth, power or fame; perhaps I would be tempted with security, as my greatest fear is probably having those I love caught in violence.

But the only vision I can see which satisfies this (in a reasonable way) is a very small, closed community - and as a fairly social person this does not appeal! I like living in a small city, which cannot exist without some degree of threat from other people, so I'm happy to leave that Ring lying on the ground.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I genuinely think I would be a Faramir and refuse the Ring.

I wouldn't become a Dark Lord either, but I would've taken the ring and used it to make more lowly temptations come true, you know, kind of like Gollum but more concentrated on hedonistic pleasures than vengeance and deceit. Sex, drugs and rock'n'roll, that kind of stuff. I'd become invisible, sneak into some brilliant songwriter or author's place and steal their work and claim it for my own, become rich, moderately famous perhaps, and if the paparazzi bothers you there's always an easy solution. Of course, eventually I'd wear out and fade away yet still live on, kind of like Keith Richards. Some people would certainly have to pay for their crimes against humanity though, make no mistake about that! Where can one find such a ring?

[Andsigil]

The ring would tempt me with the power to create an idyllic existence.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Andsigil

The ring would tempt me with the power to create an idyllic existence.

Or what you'd think was an ideal existence at the time. And then once you've achieved what you want to, you wouldn't just stop there, and you'd starting using the ring for more and more an then it would take you over. I admit that that's what would probably happen if I started using it.

I would try my best to refuse it. We say now that we wouldn't accept it, but we wouldn't really know until we came into contact with it, and by then it might be too late. Even the least power-hungry person could be attracted to it. It's probably best that rings like that don't exist.

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Or what you'd think was an ideal existence at the time. And then once you've achieved what you want to, you wouldn't just stop there, and you'd starting using the ring for more and more an then it would take you over. I admit that that's what would probably happen if I started using it.

Well... yeah. That's very possible, since I'm a human being and therefore flawed.

I know myself fairly well (for 41 years now), and I'm both old-fashioned and simple in my tastes. So, all of my efforts would probably revolve around creating some kind of idealized version of late 19th century Europe or America.

[Glirdan]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I genuinely think I would be a Faramir and refuse the Ring. I have no interest in wealth, power or fame; perhaps I would be tempted with security, as my greatest fear is probably having those I love caught in violence.

But the only vision I can see which satisfies this (in a reasonable way) is a very small, closed community - and as a fairly social person this does not appeal! I like living in a small city, which cannot exist without some degree of threat from other people, so I'm happy to leave that Ring lying on the ground.

I'm in total agreement with this. My biggest fear and problem in life is seeing those I care about getting hurt, and not just physically of course. I am the type of person to put other people's problems and issues before my own and am always helping my friends. Thus, a small community would be perfect to solve this....

However, for those who know me, I am too loud, obnoxious and like socializing too much to be confined to the small town, peaceful life that would be required to have this fear deteriorated. I'm a performer, I love the lime light and in turn love being in front of hundreds of people. I thrive off of it.

So, unless the Ring can somehow turn this walking, breathing contradiction into the opposite of that, I would much rather leave the Ring by the wayside and let the next poor sap pick it up.....After giving him fair warning of what the Ring might do of course.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

I would much rather leave the Ring by the wayside:

You say, that now, I do too, but when it's whispering to you and saying "I'll give you all of this that you want", I think we're not as strong as we like to believe. That's why the Men that became Ringwraiths were so easily tempted. Of course, some of might refuse it- I know I like to believe I could, and I'm sure you do too, but you just never know.

Of course, this is just my opinion...

[alatar]

I'm confused...where in the history of the One Ring did it ever beget peace, riches and supermodel spouses?

Power, that's all it gives. Control of others to do what they would not do otherwise.

The invisibility thing is nice too.

Something interesting as well in the Faramir-types. What if no one ever knew that you left the Ring by the wayside? Would you feel the same about your action? Or do you enjoy the praise of your weaker-willed brethren? What sin is that? Or do you really just not want it?

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior

If the Ring were to tempt me, it would probably tempt me with the prospect of getting out of the dead end that is Anchorage, Alaska and to get somewhere else. Probably Britain, because being the good little Anglophile that I am, would rather be there. It would tempt me with wireless internet connection everywhere. This temptation to be on the internet all the time is probably the Bane of my existence! Oh, and tea too.

OH yeah! Totally. Except the tea.

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I genuinely think I would be a Faramir and refuse the Ring. I have no interest in wealth, power or fame; perhaps I would be tempted with security, as my greatest fear is probably having those I love caught in violence.

Actually, that's basically what mine would be. Add to that TGEW's eternal Internet, and that would be my idea of perfection. Maybe, to wrap all this up nicely...a secure little town in Britain with wireless Internet everywhere. I can already feel myself succumbing...

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by alatar

I'm confused...where in the history of the One Ring did it ever beget peace, riches and supermodel spouses?

Power, that's all it gives. Control of others to do what they would not do otherwise.

I'm also confused. Does power not come in handy obtaining supermodel spouses, riches and peace?

I would try my best to refuse it. We say now that we wouldn't accept it, but we wouldn't really know until we came into contact with it, and by then it might be too late. Even the least power-hungry person could be attracted to it. It's probably best that rings like that don't exist.

Maybe the One Ring is lost but there are plenty of lesser Rings of Power still out there, and even they are very dangerous for mortal men. And most ringbearers really do start out with the best intentions. Take for example the fight against terrorism or the fight against drugs. Noble intentions yes, but at the moment it looks like the war against the phenomena in question is causing much more problems than the phenomena itself. Or here in my country we have the fight to stop men from abusing women, a very noble cause. But not seldom this in practice has meant easing the burden of proof if a woman accuses a man of something, and in some cases innocent men have been send away on long prison sentences because of ludicrous charges without any real evidence.