Elves and Dunland

[The Might]

Indeed, Elladan and Elrohir makes sense since they had ridden as early as some months before the return journey through Dunland when they were part of the Grey Company coming to help Aragorn.

They probably remained close to the North-South-Road, but who knows, perhaps wandered off a bit into Dunland and would have thus been seen.

And of course they had often travelled into the Wild looking for Orcs, so perhaps they passed more often through Dunland.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

A Gildorish wandering elf band does indeed seem possible.
Perhaps from Harlindon they wished to visit Fangorn forest or
take a winter non-mountain path to Lorien or Mirkwood.
Also, recall Treebeard's onservation that the Old Forest
was once more extensive, making an elf forest path across
Minhriath more attractive to them.

Aye, aye, there was all one wood once upon a
time from here to the Mountains of Lune, and this was
just the East End.

[The Might]

But all those forests were cut down by the Numenoreans in their quest for ever more timber to build their ships.

This means that the early Dunlendings did indeed live near the Numenoreans in times when Elves still wandered through those woods, but that their descendants probably saw no more Elves passing nearby since there was little reason for them.
In this case again, my idea would be that myths preserved the memory of Elves of Hollin or the Grey Havens wandering through the great woods of Enedwaith.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Interesting topic, and I believe I have a few thoughts to add to what has been said.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

The most recent would seem to be Elladan and Elrohir. They probably would have passed through Dunland when they rode with the Dúnedain of the North to meet Aragorn in Rohan.

Despite the counterpoints, I believe this may as well have been the case. Elladan and Elrohir might have been quite easily encountered by some Dunlendings, or seen by some hunters. They at least passed close enough, and we know that by that time the Dunlendings were a bit on the rise, possibly even roaming further around their usual borders. There is one more thought to it, if the Dunlendings started to become a bit more "cosmopolitan" at the times of their alliance with Saruman (meaning only that possibly from time to time a few were recruited to "military missions abroad" and then some of them returned back), the stories from farther lands (including also tales of Elves) might have been strenghtened among the common folk.

Originally Posted by The Might

After searching for an answer for some time now the only logical answer that I can give is that by saying "ever came to their country" Tolkien means Elves barely came to Dunland not just during the lifespan of the Dunlendings but ever since these people settled there in the first place.

This would make sense, since the ancestors of the Dunlendings, the Gwaithuirim who lived upon the Gwathló, surely must have known of the Elves living in Hollin back then.

As such, Elves wandering through the forests or on their way to Lórien around the Misty Mountains and not over the Redhorn Pass must have been encountered by the early Dunlendings, who perhaps feared them due to the perceived superiority of the Elves.

This knowledge would then have been passed down from generation to generation and would thus also be known in the form of myths by the late Third Age Dunlendings. They would then also fear the Elves and hide.

To me this makes sense since in M-e this often is the case - that old myths are still remembered by descendants. One example that comes to mind is the doubt of Eorl the Young concerning Lórien, also due to myths of that land being remembered within his culture as memories of when the Éothéod used to live in that area.

Then again, perhaps an easier answer exists...

I believe Miggy is right here, offering a very reasonable and down-to-earth point. I think this is the way it was, mostly, apart from unique cases like Elladan and Elrohir on their special mission, as mentioned above. However, I indeed believe that another answer exists as well, alongside this one. I do not believe that all that was to it were the old tales. I will say more of that further on.

Originally Posted by Fordim Hedgethistle

I find it interesting that the Dunlendings would be aware of the Elvish folk at all given that Elves are passing through the Shire all the time and nobody there seems to be aware of it. Perhaps the Dunlendings are more 'aware' than the hobbits (which would speak very much in their favour in contrast with the insular citizens of the Shire). I would argue that it's a more hopeful sign to see and then run away from than to be wilfully blind. But then again, I've never seen Elves myself, so what does that say about me...(?)

I don't think it's about being "more aware" at all. The hobbits also knew about the Elves, but it was only some of them. Remember what Sam Gamgee told to Ted Sandyman in the pub, that one can see the Elves at night passing through the Shire. I believe it might have been the same with the Dunlendings: a few "Sams", who were perhaps considered a bit weird by the majority of the population, did spot the Elves a few times, or at some times (might have been really rarely, even once a lifetime could be enough for some scared Dunlendings), but that's what kept the tales fresh.

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

A Gildorish wandering elf band does indeed seem possible.
Perhaps from Harlindon they wished to visit Fangorn forest or
take a winter non-mountain path to Lorien or Mirkwood.
Also, recall Treebeard's onservation that the Old Forest
was once more extensive, making an elf forest path across
Minhriath more attractive to them.

Of course, as Miggy already pointed out, there were really no nice forest paths from Lindon to Dunland anymore. But I am surprised why nobody yet thought of the most obvious reason for groups of "Gildor-ish" Elves to come near Dunland, near enough for the people to note them and be aware of their existence, but still in the way that it was enough to say that "a few indeed came to their country". My proposal would be - they indeed did not come to their country, but they could have been noticed by the scouts passing the neighbouring country, that is, Hollin! Wilderness, perhaps, but still a fair enough place for the Elves to make pilgrimages to, don't you think? I am not speaking of anything big here, but from time to time, somebody might have appeared - just like Gildor and his folk were going to the White Towers (and their journey was not a shorter one by any means). Remeber what Legolas said in Hollin, or, Eregion, as it used to be called? "I hear the stones lament them: 'Deep they delved us, fair
they wrought us, high they builded us; but they are gone.'" And Gandalf said: "Much evil must befall a country before it wholly forgets the Elves, if once they dwelt there." I believe even the Elves did not forget.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

A clarification on elves wandering from an area such as Harlindon to Fangorn.
I actually had two points in the above post.
The lack of a continuous forest wouldn't necessarily preclude wandering
bands going south around the Misty Mountains. In addition to
avoiding difficult winter weather it would be an exploratory/discovery
trip, especially if they got the chance to talk to the folk (Ents) that
elves gave speech to, or perhaps to visit a believed friendly maia
once he took over guardianship of Orthanc.

And the road from Rivendell to the Gray Havens also had considerable
non-tree covered areas.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

A clarification on elves wandering from an area such as Harlindon to Fangorn.
I actually had two points in the above post.
The lack of a continuous forest wouldn't necessarily preclude wandering
bands going south around the Misty Mountains. In addition to
avoiding difficult winter weather it would be an exploratory/discovery
trip, especially if they got the chance to talk to the folk (Ents) that
elves gave speech to, or perhaps to visit a believed friendly maia
once he took over guardianship of Orthanc.

And the road from Rivendell to the Gray Havens also had considerable
non-tree covered areas.

Of course it did. As much as the road from Rivendell to Grey Havens. However, the point was aimed against the idea of an "elvish trip through the woods". There would not have been any elvish trip, for there were no woods.

However, what you say is considerable. The Maia part would be, of course, quite outdated thing and would work only in the early days, and Saruman himself did not seem to be that greatly fond of Elves anyway, and except for a few Noldo-minded inventors, not having anything to give to the Elves after a few hundred years of residing in M-E. No, I actually believe that by the time he settled down in Orthanc, he was basically done with the Elves, and whoever wanted to meet him had done so already, and the air of freshness and curiosity about him had mostly disappeared by then.

The talk to Ents is a better idea, though still, not as great, as the Fangorn was probably considered a bit of an obscure ancient place, just as much as Celeborn did warn the Fellowship against it. Moreover, the country around was so wild that only a few very brave elves from Rivendell who would be really deeply fascinated by Fangorn would pass, and thus, we cannot consider it as any important traffic. It would be one Elf like that in a hundred years, if ever. The pilgrimage to Ost-in-Edhil sounds far more pleasant and as an option of bigger frequency (I would say one in ten years as an average number is not even bad to consider). Had it not been for Legolas' words (saying that the Noldor were strange to the forest folk), I would even consider some visits from Lórien, but in this way it seems a bit unlikely. (It is of note, though, that Dunland seemed to have been the home for Celeborn and Galadriel in ages past, at least for a time, and speaking of that, it used to be a home for Dwarves in exile like Thráin and his folk AND also the ancestors of Hobbits in times past, so in fact, I am really starting to reconsider my opinion on this land as a piece of nowhere full of savage barbarians - the land seemed to have a, let's say, historically-cultural importance of tremendous significance).

[The Mouth of Sauron]

There's something else.

If Elves visited Fangorn from time to time, one of the 3 eldest Ents, Skinbark - and his people - lived on the high WESTERN slopes of the Misty Mountains, which were presumably directly above Dunland.

So rather than Gildorian companies reaching Fangorn via the Gap of Rohan, they may have taken a short-cut through Dunland to reach Skinbark ?

[Rumil]

Nice discussion,

I've been wondering about the applicability of folklore here. Now British (and probably more generally European) folklore had the concept of the 'High Hunt', where, usually on a dark, warm, inexplicably windy, witchy, twitchy sort of summer's night, often Midsummer, the faerie / sidhe / elves held a great annual hunt.

The King of the Elves rides out with his huntsmen, either pursuing the White Stag, or clearing the land of the 'uncanny' creatures that have escaped from the faerie realm over the last year. Their pursuit is wild and unrestrained, galloping across hill, wood and vale with no let or hindrance.

For the honest countyman, this is a time to bring in the beasts from the field, securely bolt your front door, and heed no nightly noises whatsoever. If you have the wrong sort of elves it might be just as well to put out a saucer of milk and make sure the horseshoe is extra-securely nailed over the door. All will be well in the morning, apart maybe from the odd missing chicken or shifted roof-slate. Woe betide the lad or lass that ventures outdoors upon such a night, for, often-as-not they're never seen again, or turn up years and years later but fay and strangely changed.

So what's the Middle-Earth relevance? We know the elves, like practically all nobility, loved to hunt. The Noldor were great hunters in Beleriand (even chasing down the Petty-Dwarves), Thranduil and his folk often rode out hunting in Mirkwood, and the White Stag was seen by Bilbo et al on their trek.

I could see the elven aristocracy of Rivendell riding out on a midsummer's night, led by the brethren Elladan and Elrohir or Elrond himself perhaps. Maybe they hunt the White Stag, maybe they scour the lands of orcs and trolls. Some years they go North into the Ettenmoors, some years North-West into the Trollshaws or South West across the plains and into the Angle, sometimes South into Hollin, and occasionally they carry on through Hollin to Dunland. East they go not.

Those nights the men of Dunland retire to their forts and roundhouses, build up the fire and bar the door, knowing that uncanny folk beyond their understanding are abroad.

Maybe !

What do you think?