TIG: LXV - Our fate lies with...them?

[Nessa Telrunya]

Personal reasons? I do not recall saying "Rikae, I'm voting you for personal reasons."

It's nothing against you, just that the way you jumped out at Hakon, when he was only trying to help. You effectively stated that you did not like talking about useless subjects, like how bad Day one is, or the Bear, or surveys, and that worked to take the eyes off you, yet you persisted in actively participating in those same conversations, and steering the talk away from the most important subject-catching a baddie.

But no, I don't think you are a baddie, you've suceeded in catching the spotlight and no wolf would do anything to get so much scrutiny.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Nessa Telrunya

Personal reasons? I do not recall saying "Rikae, I'm voting you for personal reasons."

You said you were voting me because you didn't like the way I "jump down people's throats all the time" if I recall correctly. That sounds pretty personal to me.

Originally Posted by Nessa

It's nothing against you, just that the way you jumped out at Hakon, when he was only trying to help. You effectively stated that you did not like talking about useless subjects, like how bad Day one is, or the Bear, or surveys, and that worked to take the eyes off you, yet you persisted in actively participating in those same conversations, and steering the talk away from the most important subject-catching a baddie.

To set the record straight:

I talked about the surveys after the mod's permission, without I would have considered it cheating.

I talked about the bear because I found phantom suspicious and wanted to say why.

I talked about Fea because I was trying to trap baddies.

[Nessa Telrunya]

Originally Posted by Rikae

To set the record straight:

I talked about the surveys after the mod's permission, without I would have considered it cheating.

I talked about the bear because I found phantom suspicious and wanted to say why.

I talked about Fea because I was trying to trap baddies.

Okay, I'll drop the matter, but I can't promise someone else won't pick it up. Now I find myself thinking you an ordo who likes to voice her opinion, rather than a baddie.

Now, The Phantom has somehow managed to stick himself both to the top and bottom of my suspicions. His part in finding Pitch innocent can be interpreted in multiple ways, but that is his own fault for not supporting words with actions. I can see him as maybe being a gifted, but that would be a stretch, and gifteds and baddies are often meshed together.

[Formendacil]

Okay, I have family wanting the computer and I need to say Lauds before noon. If God should give me a private revelation therein about the baddies, I'll undoubtedly be back soon, but barring that, I'm not sure when I'll be back. Soonish rather than laterish, I imagine, but let's emphasize the "ish" either way.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Nessa Telrunya

Personal reasons? I do not recall saying "Rikae, I'm voting you for personal reasons."

It's nothing against you, just that the way you jumped out at Hakon, when he was only trying to help. You effectively stated that you did not like talking about useless subjects, like how bad Day one is, or the Bear, or surveys, and that worked to take the eyes off you, yet you persisted in actively participating in those same conversations, and steering the talk away from the most important subject-catching a baddie.

But no, I don't think you are a baddie, you've suceeded in catching the spotlight and no wolf would do anything to get so much scrutiny.

That last line bugs me... maybe it's just that you haven't experienced some of the wolves this site has produced, Nessa, but there are--or have been, anyway--wolves that would have willingly caught the spotlight (and hence, the scrutiny). And if you're going to pick a Day to do it, Day 1 is the Day, since it's a lot more reasonably possible to argue your way out or survive the aftermath (ie. "not get lynched") if it's on the basis of Day 1, and then in the game after that you seem to have a credibility of having been exonerated. It's not true, of course, because you haven't died and your role hasn't been found out, but I'd say, descriptively, that it works.

All of which said... I'm inclined to agree with you that Rikae is innocent, but your basic premise that a wolf would not have subjected him/herself to the spotlight doesn't fly for me, and I think its possible that we have a wolf or bear among yesterday's loudmouths. Maybe the phantom--he is certainly capable of pulling it off. If he wasn't dead and the seer, it could have been Pitchwife--but, obviously, that's a case of the seer under scrutiny.

Hmm... Hakon's the only other spotlight yesterday that I'm really remembering... and he was, I thought and have been proven correct, in the spotlight very clearly despite himself...

Okay... Maybe the wolves/bear weren't in the spotlight yesterday... or I can't remember everyone who was... but it's not, conceptually, impossible.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Although... Rikae has been defending herself rather vigorously--which is fair, since she's come under a fair amount of suspicion, I guess--but it's sending mixed signals to me in a sense. On the one hand, there's sort of an air of "Fine, whatever: I'm an ordo and you're going to kill me and I'm going to give you all the reasons you shouldn't"--a sense of not caring, in other words... but with a sort of consistent earnestness that, obviously, says she does care.

What can I say? I do care. Partly because I want to help the village and not have everyone waste their time attacking/lynching me (and yes, a wolf can always say that, but there's my thinking for you all to consider) and partly because, I'll admit it, a lot of the accusations hurt my pride, since they seem to imply I am either a stupid or dishonorable player.

Originally Posted by Inzil

I wasn't attacking you, per se. An innocent would certainly have an interest in pointing it out, but so would a wolf to a packmate who'd just made a dangerous error. The way you worded it seemed to me a bit more along the lines of the latter scenario, that's all.

I don't think a wolf-Mac would have pointed out a wolf-Mira's error in that case, but hoped it would be overlooked. Although actually, I'm inclined to think Mira only made an honest mistake, anyway, or is not a wolf or bear in any event. If she were a wolf or bear and thought the phantom was gifted, she'd try to paint him as a wolf and get him lynched or, failing that, kill him herself toNight - the worst she could reasonably be is a cobbler, which she might, but we have bigger fish to fry. If Mac were a wolf or bear, pointing out the cobbler's cobblerishness would be a silly move.

[Rikae]

just to add to the above - a silly move right now, I mean. If it were necessary for the baddies to find a scapegoat, later in the game, probably, baddies going after the cobbler would make sense, but it doesn't really make sense now.

[Lariren Shadow]

Mira --> Rikae
Shasta --> Mira
Morm --> Rikae (2)
Alona --> Morm
Nerwen --> Mira (2)

Rikae and Mira 2, Morm 1.

And the Dark Monarch is spleeny pottle-deep moldwarp! (<3 Shakespeare)

[Nienna]

Hakon Voters:

-Morm – weird vote and retract and vote again just because Hakon commented on something Morm said pre-game

-Alona – voted early because she said she might not be around… always the possibility to retract later… thought that Hakon bringing up surveys just felt weird and agreed with what Morm says about Hakon earlier

-Sally – gave no reasoning for her vote in her vote post but in a previous post she said that she didn’t like Hakon trying to stir things up and being laid back at the same time. She said it looked squirmy (218).

-Autume (later retracted) – Didn’t give any reason for voting Hakon… not even a little. Then switched to Pitchwife (one minute before deadline to push Pitchwife over the edge) also without reason. She says she can expand on it toDay. I think it is time for that explanation.

[wilwarin538]

Wild-eye and Hover Girl are both mad mustachio purple-hued maltworms

[Rikae]

I thought I'd better thoroughly analyze the people who were flying under my radar the most. I have a feeling I might have been focusing too much on those who suspected me, while the wolves sat back and enjoyed the show... so here's my summery of Alona, Shasta, Autume and Durelin:

Alona:

Day 1

#46
Banter, admits saying she feared phantom on survey.

#53
Banter.

#55
Yet more banter.

#58
Asks Nerwen to stop writing backward.

#70
Goofing around

#73
Still more goofing around.

#247
Comolains about number of pages, needs to catch up.

#286
Agrees with Lari on roles matching survey answers. Votes for Hakon - seemingly uncertain placeholder vote; thinks he wouldn't attract so much attention as a wolf or bear, but still finds survey suggestion "feels weird" (hm, actually, she contributed to the survey talk above, a contradiction), considers him possible cobbler.

#430
Explains to Mac that she needs to be more original. Suspects Hakon ("not all newbie mistakes"), thanks me for defending her, I guess. Seems a little *too* nice, somehow, like she's looking for allies.

#432
Vote count

#445
Banter

#447
"Where are the 10 some odd people that still have to vote...?"

#466
"I think Pitchwife panicked, to be quite honest. I'm more inclined to believe cobblery or bear-ery (?) from Hakon than Pitchwife."

#476
"♥ Nienna."

Day 2:

#526
Makes the odd statement that we "gave the wolves too much" on Day 1, thinks they jumped on the bandwagons. Makes the also-odd statement that she voted for Hakon because he was abusing newbie errors "a mistake that both Rikae and I made". Not sure what she means - I didn't vote for that reason or say that about anyone - and it gives me an odd feeling of having someone ride my coattails or something. Nessa one to watch, the more traps the better.

#530
"Or someone wants to frame Rikae...and then that begs the question, which players would be at an advantage if she were gone?"

#532
Mira doing a great job.

#534
"Possible...and I have another (newbie) question. Are we allowed to arrange our deaths in a manner that would leave clues for the good guys to figure out who killed us?"

#543

Makes sense for bear to be newbie, for bear to keep wolves around, agreeing with Mira, just thought Hakon was a cobbler.

#581
Doesn't suspect me, suspects Inzil.

#582
Votes morm for "hiding behind a vote" - care to explain a little more, alona? I don't quite understand this.



Shasta

Day 1:

#84
Banter, tells people to lay off Nerwen (for backwards writing), banter about voting phantom. Something about the style of this post seems a little tense to me.

#94
More banter.

#94
More banter related to previous game and gifteds leaving clues (sorry, don't get it, wasn't there).

#392

Votes Pitchwife because he thinks his disagreement with phantom looks like ""No, Bear, don't join the innocents against me and my wolf friends, plzkthx.", apparently. Not a good reason, especially considering that I could probably have been accused of that more than Pitchwife could (although I think Shasta explained later he wasn't caught up - but didn't change vote). I took the vote itself as a point against Pitchwife anyway, though, since I firmly believe in Shasta's ESP. Call me superstitious if you like... but look at his record!

#402
Explaining he wasn't caught up to phantom, who made the point above.

#403
Likes Dury's remark about phantom's ego.

#428
Vote against Pitchwife "Stands for now" after Pitchwife's retraction. Doesn't like when people vote to keep someone "more useful" around.

#434
Vote count, plus "Noteworthy: Pitchwife seemed to freak a bit after suspicion turned to him and jumped on Mac's vote for alona, but why didn't he vote for Hakon if he were evil?" - seems to be thinking Pitchwife more innocentish, then?

#454

Accuses Form of lying because of mix-up over Shasta suspecting me.

Day 2:

#535
"Definitely not wanted. What does an innocent morm gain from saying this? Hint - it's "nothing". (mistaking Mira for Morm and referring to Mira's phantom comment)

#539
"You're right, it was Mira. Sorry morm.

Also, one too many e's, newreN."

#578

Votes Mira "for pointing out gifteds, which is how we caught Boro last game"

Autume:

Day 1:

#129
Likes phantom's advice to gifteds to leave hints. Thinks gifteds should make sure they will be found (in spite of the fact that phantom wasn't talking about those kinds of hints).

#317
Thinks we shouldn't vote for Fea. Finds Hakon suspicious - no explanation.

#338
Keeping an eye on phantom because she hasn't played with him before (???) and suspects me because she played with me before once (???) no explanation of that. (I was the hunter in the game in question).

#353
Agrees with my suspicion of phantom, jokes about hunters being scary (in reply to my question about her last post).

#357
Votes for Hakon with no explanation.

#482
Changes vote from Hakon to Pitch. Promises to explain Day 2.

Day 2:

#464
Explains vote by basically saying she agreed with others' suspicions of Pitchwife, if I read it correctly.

#499
Tells morm she's female.

#562
Doesn't think I'm a wolf. Thinks it suspicious that phantom voted last-minute after suggesting early deadline.

#563
Can't decide on phantom, asks for others' opinions on his quote about Pitchwife not leaving hints. (I think it could be quite innocent, but if it's a wolf phantom he could, of course, be trying to cover up Pitch's hints toward a fellow wolf... also, by analyzing Pitch we may be able to find a semi-known innocent, if he dreamed an ordo... worth analyzing Pitch anyway, I think, although this has exhausted me so I doubt I'll be the one to do it)



Durelin:

Day 1:

#358
Seems sensible, but maybe I think so because she agrees with me on phantom. Also considers me possibly suspicious. Thinks Nessa is forced seeming "especially when it seemed like she was sweet-talking Rikae" (when was that? I don't remember seeing it), disagrees with Brinn and Hakon but doesn't seem to suspect them. Survey talk a waste of time.

#371
"Have to say this - Arguing that a Fea-vote is no different from a No-vote is completely pointless, considering that a person can certainly think a No-vote is just as ridiculous...except of course if used as a last minute tool."

#412
Votes for Nessa: "Her posts #151, 154, and 159 are particularly unnerving. Maybe it's just that I disagree with her plain and simply, and that her personality rubs me the wrong way (which of course I kinda how I feel about Hakon... >_>). Basically she seems to be trying very hard to be agreeable and to discuss *something* and ends up commentating on the situation and making really weird generalizations about Day 1 and voting."



I'll post my opinions of each in my next post... too overwhelming to try and post them with all this.