WWLXII: Dead Men Do Tell Tales - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Shastanis Althreduin · 07-01-2009, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikae

And that was without even a drop of rum.

Just wish I'd gone with my instincts the night they killed me, instead of trying to be clever...

Who's the one with the psychic powers now?

Inziladun · 07-01-2009, 04:41 PM

For curiosity's sake, who was the missed kill intended to be?

Kath · 07-01-2009, 05:40 PM

It would have been Rikae. We were always going to kill her, we were just a Night late!

Inziladun · 07-01-2009, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kath

It would have been Rikae. We were always going to kill her, we were just a Night late!

What a shame for us you missed that kill! Rikae had picked Gwath that Night.

Thinlómien · 07-02-2009, 10:45 AM

I don´t feel like we lost even though I got myself lynched, I was SO wrong about Kath and we did lose - the truth is that I´m just glad that now everybody knows I was right about Mac and I´m not completely nuts.

I´m also proud of being the only one (as far as I recall...?) suspecting Eomer of cobblerism and Mira of mutineerism and of nailing Sally as a baddie early on.

And you mutineers should have succeeded in sending in the kill ´cos then I would have made one save (and saved myself too

). I´m running out of net time so I´ll be back to talk & rep later, now I will only say it was a very lovely and educational game, kudos and thanks to everybody!!!

PS. Sorry for the horrible layout but I blame the German keyboard...

Mithalwen · 07-02-2009, 11:02 AM

I do understand a moddess' dilemma - it was having faced so many that perhaps made me suspect Gwath was being spared for a reason. Only comment was that it would have been fairer if we had been told he would NOT be mod killed (which the rules provided for in exceptional cases) so perhaps he would have been considered sooner.
And while it was a handicap losing Mira the wolves did have the upper hand in knowledge - it isn't like we KNEW we were a wolf down. Really miraculous how close we came.

Boromir88 · 07-02-2009, 12:28 PM

First I'll just say I'm not angry with anyone, win or lose, it doesn't matter there will always be another game. And as others have said the play on both sides was just stunning.

But the point I was trying to make is do you want a "thrilling" game, or do you want to win/or lose by the "rules." I think we all like the thrilling games, but not all of them can possibly end that way, and how much rule bending had to take place to create the "thriller?" Every game can't be thrilling, or down to the wire, and to try and create those types of games, when you punish the village for their good play (or reward the wolves for a mistake)...I'm sorry I don't agree with that.

Mira was an accidental surprise, but it was still fair, and admirable play by the innoncents (and I think Gwath too!

). There have been surprise wolf-lynching before. (Keep in mind we had no clue at the time Mira was a wolf)

Kath was lynched for a couple reasons, but she got lynched because enough innocents thought her vote and what she was saying was suspicious (keep in mind we had not clue at the time Kath was a wolf).

Mac was finally (

) lynched because he was caught and faked a ranger claim. That was his choice, and after being pushed into a corner he certainly went down fighting. I will say, I think mostly we were all pretty certain Mac was a wolf.

Gwath should have be killed based on the mod-fire rule, for not posting or voting for 3 days. I'm not saying Gwath got a cheap win, or shouldn't be proud of the way he played, because he made some great plays and won because of that.

The reason I always felt any mod-fire rule was in place was to make the game more even for all it's players. It's like a football game (sorry Mith, bare with me on this analogy). It would be like if the Lions and Cowboys were playing, and the Cowboys decided the Lions were not going to be allowed to watch any of their game-films, and so the Lions are left in the dark about the Cowboys' formations, plays, and strategy, in their upcoming match. If the mutineers didn't do anything, say anything, or post at all, for multiple days it makes it near impossible for the innocents.

Ok, we already knew that the rule was going to be loosely applied and not the "2 no votes and you're gone." But why have it at all if you aren't going to apply it fairly? Had an ordo missed 2 straight votes would they have been mod-fired? But the rule obviously wasn't intended for wolves?

Why was Wilwa immediately removed from our count? That was the night the wolves didn't send in the kill...they made a mistake, they messed up, why did they get rewarded with Wilwa's removal? See what I mean? Mira and Gwath were given the chance to come back if they could, but Wilwa was removed right away.

I don't mean any disrespect to the mutineers, I thought the way you played during the day was spectacular, but you were caught, we got you. Add on top of that, you made a flub by not sending in a night kill. This wasn't a matter of a game imbalance, the mutineers got lynched because the village worked well together and the mutineers made mistakes. You were awarded special rule-bending for the mistakes, and in return the innocents got nothing back. No one's role was given to us, we had no idea the situation we were up against for most of the agme (which may have changed the lynches/outcome), we got nothing.

This just felt like one that not only did the crew win 'legally' but one they deserved by their play and it was taken away. Like I said, I'm not angry at anyone for the decisions or what happened. I'm just trying to give my perspective, for next time, and that is I don't agree with rewarding a wolf-team (or innocent team) after making mistakes, so you have an 'entertaining' game.

07-01-2009, 04:41 PM	#2
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,039	For curiosity's sake, who was the missed kill intended to be? __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.

07-01-2009, 05:40 PM	#3
Kath Everlasting Whiteness Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Perusing the laminated book of dreams Posts: 4,533	It would have been Rikae. We were always going to kill her, we were just a Night late! __________________ “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

07-02-2009, 10:45 AM	#5
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	I don´t feel like we lost even though I got myself lynched, I was SO wrong about Kath and we did lose - the truth is that I´m just glad that now everybody knows I was right about Mac and I´m not completely nuts. I´m also proud of being the only one (as far as I recall...?) suspecting Eomer of cobblerism and Mira of mutineerism and of nailing Sally as a baddie early on. And you mutineers should have succeeded in sending in the kill ´cos then I would have made one save (and saved myself too ). I´m running out of net time so I´ll be back to talk & rep later, now I will only say it was a very lovely and educational game, kudos and thanks to everybody!!! PS. Sorry for the horrible layout but I blame the German keyboard... __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

07-02-2009, 11:02 AM	#6
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	I do understand a moddess' dilemma - it was having faced so many that perhaps made me suspect Gwath was being spared for a reason. Only comment was that it would have been fairer if we had been told he would NOT be mod killed (which the rules provided for in exceptional cases) so perhaps he would have been considered sooner. And while it was a handicap losing Mira the wolves did have the upper hand in knowledge - it isn't like we KNEW we were a wolf down. Really miraculous how close we came. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace Last edited by Mithalwen; 07-02-2009 at 11:40 AM.

07-02-2009, 12:28 PM	#7
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	First I'll just say I'm not angry with anyone, win or lose, it doesn't matter there will always be another game. And as others have said the play on both sides was just stunning. But the point I was trying to make is do you want a "thrilling" game, or do you want to win/or lose by the "rules." I think we all like the thrilling games, but not all of them can possibly end that way, and how much rule bending had to take place to create the "thriller?" Every game can't be thrilling, or down to the wire, and to try and create those types of games, when you punish the village for their good play (or reward the wolves for a mistake)...I'm sorry I don't agree with that. Mira was an accidental surprise, but it was still fair, and admirable play by the innoncents (and I think Gwath too! ). There have been surprise wolf-lynching before. (Keep in mind we had no clue at the time Mira was a wolf) Kath was lynched for a couple reasons, but she got lynched because enough innocents thought her vote and what she was saying was suspicious (keep in mind we had not clue at the time Kath was a wolf). Mac was finally () lynched because he was caught and faked a ranger claim. That was his choice, and after being pushed into a corner he certainly went down fighting. I will say, I think mostly we were all pretty certain Mac was a wolf. Gwath should have be killed based on the mod-fire rule, for not posting or voting for 3 days. I'm not saying Gwath got a cheap win, or shouldn't be proud of the way he played, because he made some great plays and won because of that. The reason I always felt any mod-fire rule was in place was to make the game more even for all it's players. It's like a football game (sorry Mith, bare with me on this analogy). It would be like if the Lions and Cowboys were playing, and the Cowboys decided the Lions were not going to be allowed to watch any of their game-films, and so the Lions are left in the dark about the Cowboys' formations, plays, and strategy, in their upcoming match. If the mutineers didn't do anything, say anything, or post at all, for multiple days it makes it near impossible for the innocents. Ok, we already knew that the rule was going to be loosely applied and not the "2 no votes and you're gone." But why have it at all if you aren't going to apply it fairly? Had an ordo missed 2 straight votes would they have been mod-fired? But the rule obviously wasn't intended for wolves? Why was Wilwa immediately removed from our count? That was the night the wolves didn't send in the kill...they made a mistake, they messed up, why did they get rewarded with Wilwa's removal? See what I mean? Mira and Gwath were given the chance to come back if they could, but Wilwa was removed right away. I don't mean any disrespect to the mutineers, I thought the way you played during the day was spectacular, but you were caught, we got you. Add on top of that, you made a flub by not sending in a night kill. This wasn't a matter of a game imbalance, the mutineers got lynched because the village worked well together and the mutineers made mistakes. You were awarded special rule-bending for the mistakes, and in return the innocents got nothing back. No one's role was given to us, we had no idea the situation we were up against for most of the agme (which may have changed the lynches/outcome), we got nothing. This just felt like one that not only did the crew win 'legally' but one they deserved by their play and it was taken away. Like I said, I'm not angry at anyone for the decisions or what happened. I'm just trying to give my perspective, for next time, and that is I don't agree with rewarding a wolf-team (or innocent team) after making mistakes, so you have an 'entertaining' game. __________________ Fenris Penguin Last edited by Boromir88; 07-02-2009 at 12:40 PM.

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