WWLXII: Dead Men Do Tell Tales

[Nogrod]

Oh you Powder-Monkey you Gwath! *curses*

Well, really, kudos for your last Day performance!


But Mira and Kath? I see now why you didn't want to modkill Gwath, Brinn.

Heh, Mac... how come you suspected me from the very first Day? I'm getting to know you... even if I can't hold on to my feeling for it. Well the next time I will remember...

Just tell me guys about choosing Rikae! I'm dying to learn what happened there.

Sally being a conspie is no wonder - and neither is Eomer - heh, you were after me on Day1 as well...

Kudos to all of you who gave your best effort in these impossible circumstances! Inziladun, Lommy, Boromir, Shasta, Nerwen, Izzy... You made this a game I remember with warmth!


And yeah, just a crazy idea Brinn! I loved the narratives and in a sense the whole set-up - even if it was just totally insane and impossible to play.

But whatever. It was nice to hang around even after death and that did indeed make up for some other disappointments.

Now looking at the mutineers I do wonder had we made better knowing the roles of the dead... maybe not... albeit in the end...

Fun.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But Mira and Kath? I see now why you didn't want to modkill Gwath, Brinn.

Indeed. As much as I hate modfiring a wolf, I was okay with letting Mira go since it was still early in the game and I didn't think it'd hurt her team much, plus they weren't doing all that bad considering they killed the spy right away. My main fear was that she might return the next day saying she found internet access after all only to find herself already dead. Well she never did return and while I came up with a solution, you guys were nice enough to take care of the situation for me.

The Gwath situation happened the Night before Kath's lynching which is when I found out through his mates why he wasn't around. It was a tough decision on what to do because it just didn't seem fair to have half the baddie team killed for not participating. And at the same time I didn't want to give him special exceptions. I was leaning towards modfiring Gwath, but then at the end of the Day Kath got lynched and Mac looked like he was heading down the same road. I feared that if I modfired Gwath it would mean three wolf deaths in three phases. Even though the innocents could've won that way, I don't think it'd be a particularly fun way to win. Mainly it was selfish reasons I kept him alive; I didn't want my game to end prematurely due to modfire. I actually wrote out an explanation for Gwath's absence and not modfiring him, but I never posted it because I was afraid it might hint at roles one way or another. But I did finally have to explain the final Day since I didn't want you thinking I was being unfair; truly I was doing everything I could to keep it balanced. From what I was told, it sounded like Gwath would return, but I wasn't actually certain. I'm thankful he did return because if he didn't my game probably would've ended with modfire.

I admit I was quite frustrated at the time since I felt any decision I made would make someone unhappy. It's a relief to know that the game stayed balanced after all (in my opinion, at least). Even in the final hour, I wasn't sure who would win which certainly kept things exciting.

[Brinniel]

Day 1
Hunt: Lommy
Lynch: McCaber

Night 2
Dream: Nerwen
Protection: Mirandir
Hunt: Sally
Kill: Greenie

Day 2
Hunt: Eonwe
Lynch: Mirandir

Night 3
Protection: Sally
Hunt: Kath
Kill: Eomer

Day 3
Hunt: Sally
Lynch: Annu

Night 4
Protection: Rikae
Hunt: Gwathagor
Kill: none
Modfire: wilwarin

Day 4
Hunt: Gwathagor
Lynch: Sally

Night 5
Protection: Mithalwen
Hunt: Nogrod
Kill: Rikae

Day 5
Lynch: Kath

Night 6
Protection: Boromir
Kill: Inziladun

Day 6
Lynch: Lommy

Night 7
Kill: Boromir

Day 7
Lynch: Macalaure

Night 8
Kill: Mithalwen

Day 8
Lynch: Eonwe

Night 9
Kill: Shasta

Day 9
Lynch: Izzy

---------

I'd love to hear some explanations for the picks made by both baddies and gifteds.

I have more to comment about the game, but I should've been in bed long ago, so this is all for now. I still have four narrations to write, but they should get done sometime within the week.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I'd love to hear some explanations for the picks made by both baddies and gifteds.

On Night 8 I killed Mith because she was around very little each day, hadn't received much suspicion, and had already voted for me once I think. On Night 9 I killed Shasta because Izzy and Nerwen were bickering and I felt like I could guess how they would vote, whereas Shasta was an enigma to me.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

On Night 8 I killed Mith because she was around very little each day, hadn't received much suspicion, and had already voted for me once I think. On Night 9 I killed Shasta because Izzy and Nerwen were bickering and I felt like I could guess how they would vote, whereas Shasta was an enigma to me.

I'd have voted for you.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I'd have voted for you.

Well, dodged a bullet there.

[Macalaure]

I can absolutely understand why some of you feel like an earned victory has been taken away from them.

You ordos played exceptionally well, especially when you lynched Kath and me. However, we mutineers were quite handicapped, too, with the loss of Mira, and if Gwath had been taken from us, too, we would have been very underhanded (and don't forget that Kath was away for a bit, too) and the best play wouldn't have gotten us anywhere (even with the seer dead right away). I don't think Gwath being away was an advantage to us (except for Gwath not getting lynched in the meantime). He was not there to help Kath or me, and he had to get a hold on the game after missings days. Not that easy either.

I think Brinniel did a great job at balancing the game, even though she had to bend the rules a little. If she hadn't the game would have been a lot more boring. I mean, not only wouldn't the last few days never have happened, but without the chance to hand the torch over to Gwath on my last breath, I probably would never have attempted the ranger-thing, and the game would have been over very quickly indeed.

As I said, I can understand the frustration on the side of the ordos - but I think Brinn's decision was in favour of a good game, and thus in favour of the most fun for everyone.

PS: Talking about tough decisions, did anyone honour Gwath's gutsy move of keeping the known innocent alive?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I didn't want you thinking I was being unfair; truly I was doing everything I could to keep it balanced.

You sure were doing it! *bows* Great work Brinn! Don't you hesitate a moment about whether you did the right thing. You did.

But those mutineers would deserve some whipping indeed...

Looking especially at the following:

From what I was told, it sounded like Gwath would return, but I wasn't actually certain.

Hey you baddies, some effort, please! Especially if you think of playing the game or deserving a win... So the mod didn't even know if she had her baddies in the game or not? Shame on you.

Gwath was good on the last Day though, that I will generously admit.

[Inziladun]

Ha! I was right about Kath, at least.
Well, we gave it the old yeoman's try anyway.
I don't blame Nerwen. She did the best she could with a tough situation.
An interesting game to be sure: bad luck from the start with Greenie gone so quickly, but we almost eked out a win anyway.
I feel bad for suspecting Izzy now, but I honestly was fairly convinced she had to be the last mutineer standing.

[Kath]

Well done Gwath! Carrying it through on your own was very impressive there! I thought you were safer than you were as I'd become convinced that Nerwen was a cobbler by the end, it was only when I read the narration with the roles revealed that I realised how much trouble you could have been in there!

Very well done to the ordos though. In that game where you couldn't know anything to get two wolves lynched so close together was amazing!

To Brinn, hope you managed to enjoy modding despite everything that happened. That was a brilliant game, not knowing the roles definitely added bizarreness! Great fun. I felt bad not returning after being killed but I was too afraid of getting Gwath in trouble.

Thought I might take the opportunity to answer a question from Boro earlier: yup, I'm a conservative player. Had I been innocent or guilty I'd have voted for Gwath that Day if he was going to be modfired because I'd rather only one person died in a Day than two.

[Boromir88]

Thought I might take the opportunity to answer a question from Boro earlier: yup, I'm a conservative player.~Kath

Hehe, still I think it was more of I found some fishy things in your analysis post, and I remember you saying you can't ever get away with it as a wolf. I was most sure of Mac, simply because of Lommy and the way he ended up acting...and once he voted for you for really no reason, but retracted for Izzy, I thought there was a chance you were actually a wolf. Mira, I had no idea about, if she hadn't suddenly had to go, I don't know when I would have voted for her.

Yes Nogrod, I doubt if Mira and Kath came up as wolves, and then Mac, you would have thought I was a co-conspirator. Now maybe you would have thought I was being a bold wolf to make it to the end, but if we had known the roles, I doubt you would have been thinking I was a co-conspie the entire time. And really the only reason I thought you were evil, is because you kept insisting I was a co-conspie, and that I was playing too stubborn to be innocent. Come on...like I said, when am I not stubborn? You should have at least notice though that I had good reasons and intentions on why I voted for each person that I did, hence I was innocent. Although, from you, you may be getting a picture of me dining on a shoe sometime.

I would like another apology from Lommy...but this one just to rub it in, alright you get all the glory about Mac, and I do apologize for not trusting you about him sooner. However, Kath? Why jump out early with a full-frontal assault...just let me explain myself first, and then go all-out bombardment if you feel you have to. We're really even though, you were right about Mac, and I was right about Kath.

All the mutineers, and you Gwath, nice handling of that last day. Not only sounding very sensible but innocent. With how many times Nogrod said you looked innocent, I was suspicious, not because of what I thought about Nogrod's role (actually towards the end, if you didn't know, I started thinking he was more innocent), but simply being suspicious because..."Yes Gwath, you are sounding very sensible at this time, would be the best time for a wolf..." but that was about it, because I agreed with what Nogrod was saying, you were just sounding innocent!

I hope all me mates enjoyed it, this was a fun game to test some people, and see how we all really play. I'm going to need to slowly change what I do, or Mith, Lommy, Rikae...everyone will be able to figure me out, well I guess I could be ok still fooling Nogrod, as I doubt he ever will.

Brinn first, I want to say I am very very angry...how could you put your crew through something like this! Do you have any idea how nerve-racking this was! And the whole time you could sit back, knowing all the roles just laughing at the interactions...it afterall is just a game, but yeesh it was like walking around in a room, where you know there is broken glass everywhere, but you're blindfolded! Alright, so I loved it, and the results weren't as bad as I was secretly thinking the entire time, plus I did much better than I thought I really did, which makes me really happy. Plus being cannon fodder, and all the narrations were a joy.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Heh, Mac... how come you suspected me from the very first Day? I'm getting to know you... even if I can't hold on to my feeling for it. Well the next time I will remember...

I had to suspect someone, didn't I?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Just tell me guys about choosing Rikae! I'm dying to learn what happened there.

We knew that Gwath was going to leave for some time, and we absolutely didn't expect Brinn not to modfire him. The plan was therefore to spare him from the mod and get him lynched or hunter-killed. I voted him twice and he narrowly got away just because the innocents liked him so much.

Originally Posted by Brinn

I'd love to hear some explanations for the picks made by both baddies and gifteds.

We basically followed the suggestion Nogrod made. We killed good players who we expected nobody would listen to if they were dead and couldn't vote anymore (Greenie, Eomer, Inziladun). Getting the seer in Night 2 was pure chance. We chose Rikae because we thought the chances of her picking Kath or me were reasonable and if she chose Gwath - then so be it. I think the missed kill should be explained by Kath, though it was my mistake, too, by not checking in before the Day started (and thus missing Brinn's complaint about the lack of a kill). Now I see that we would indeed have lost Gwath (and the game!) if we hadn't missed the kill. I changed the general strategy and killed Boro because, as he has guessed already, he was least likely to believe me the day after my ranger-claim.


A lot of kudos to Brinn! For a great game, great narrations, and a lot of effort to keep the game balanced all the time.

Kudos and curses to Lommy! Expect to be killed very early the next time I'm a wolf.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Looking especially at the following:Hey you baddies, some effort, please! Especially if you think of playing the game or deserving a win... So the mod didn't even know if she had her baddies in the game or not? Shame on you.

Well, when I realized I was going to be leaving town, I decided the best thing I could do for my team was disappear without a word and get modfired after two days.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

The Gwath situation happened the Night before Kath's lynching which is when I found out through his mates why he wasn't around. It was a tough decision on what to do because it just didn't seem fair to have half the baddie team killed for not participating. And at the same time I didn't want to give him special exceptions. I was leaning towards modfiring Gwath, but then at the end of the Day Kath got lynched and Mac looked like he was heading down the same road. I feared that if I modfired Gwath it would mean three wolf deaths in three phases. Even though the innocents could've won that way, I don't think it'd be a particularly fun way to win.

However having non-participatory wolves is a big hindrance to the innocents who had no concrete information. Frustrating especially when you point out that the lack of modfire might be for the wolf reason and you get ignored completely or are rather patronisingly accused of being misguided. I think I give up ....

Not that I am bitter

but I told you so... :P

[Gwathagor]

Thanks for the game, Brinn!

[Boromir88]

Edit: Or if you don't want to read everything below, to put it like this, which I find simpler. The ordos made some great and tough choices throughout the game, and because we played well, giving the mutineers added chances (without giving us back anything in return) felt like we were getting punished for actually playing well together.

Not that it means anything, just going to share my 2 cents. The big picture is it's done now, and this turned out to be a breath-takingly down to the wire game, after a sluggish start.

With that being said, it was "balanced" because of conscious decisions to make it that way. You know we all want those type of "eyes stuck on the computer" to the end games, but sometimes that's just not how things work out. I'm sure Mith didn't want her seer finding 2 wolves the first 2 nights and then the 3rd wolf be lynched the next day. I bet she had some real nice plans for a long, fight to the finish game, but that's not how things turned out.

In this new type of game, of course you want balance, but how many times were the innocents handicapped to achieve that balance? We lynched blindly, no roles revealed (though arguably in any game we do technically lynch 'blindly' anyway, we just feel better about our lynches, and it doesn't turn into a "well you are not suspecting me for anything" match), seer dead and gone no Night 2, and the mutineers were granted special circumstances to hang around. When Wilwa said she had to leave, she was removed immediately, and I'm not saying this to be mean, I'm just saying what I see what happened.

In any game, the ordos already start out at a disadvantage, for not knowing who anyone else is, and far more things have to go right for the baddies to get slaughtered. You need a seer to pick out some lucky choices, maybe the hunter snatches on, a few Ranger protection, and overall the ordos need to place their trust in the right people...far more things have to be in sync for the village to get a smashing victory. Where the wolves, already being advantaged, can slaughter the innocents with far less having to go right for them, and of course why they win more often than not.

And in my opinion, any decision about Gwath or Mira should not have been influenced by Kath or Mac. Kath and Mac made choices which led to their own lynching...none of it was 'unfair,' enough innocents thought they looked guilty and they got lynched. Mac did a stellar job surviving for as long as he did, and getting us to lynch our Ranger, but that was his choice and he ended up lynched for it. At least in my opinion, it should not have played any factor (but we can respectfully disagree ).

I'm not saying that "rules are rules" and there is no room for bending, I'm just saying it seemed like every decision went to benefit the baddies on this one, and further handicapped the innocents. Which of course caused this game to end in a dazzling, spectacular way that it did end.

Like I said, I don't want to sound to mean, because the truth is Mac and Kath were trying to lynch Gwath, but we just didn't let 'em. Plus, afterall, Gwath did come back (I think I know him enough as a player to know he would not use an inability to play for a few days as a crutch to look innocent), and when he did come back, any decision to not lynch him lies with the ordo crew, and is no fault but our own.

However, the village was stripped of a win here, and one that I think they deserved to win, for playing cohesively and playing together well enough to lynch 3 muties based on their own decisions.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

However having non-participatory wolves is a big hindrance to the innocents who had no concrete information. Frustrating especially when you point out that the lack of modfire might be for the wolf reason and you get ignored completely or are rather patronisingly accused of being misguided. I think I give up ....

Yeah, I feel bad about that. I fully expected to modfired when I left town.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Oh you Powder-Monkey you Gwath! *curses*

Well, really, kudos for your last Day performance!

Really? The funny thing is I could have sworn you were a cobbler, the way you were proclaiming my innocence on the last couple days. I had no idea I had actually been convincing.