When the Nazgûl lose their bodily form, what happens to their rings?

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

If we accept that Sauron had the One with him in Númenor and was somehow able to trasport it with his disembodied spirit back to ME, why could he not have done the same with the Nine after his defeat by the Last Alliance?

Ummm...if that were the case, don't you think Sauron would have levitated the One Ring out of Isildur's grasp? I mean, really, what's the point of spiriting off the Nine when his decapitated finger had the only ring that mattered? And since Isuldur was in the slice and dice mode, if the other Rings were available on Sauron's prone body, wouldn't he have lifted those as well?

Originally Posted by Galin

But why can't Sauron have taken the Nine back in the Third Age? That appears to be the indication from Of The Rings Of Power And The Third Age, as I read it anyway.

Where were they then, 'zactly?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Ummm...if that were the case, don't you think Sauron would have levitated the One Ring out of Isildur's grasp? I mean, really, what's the point of spiriting off the Nine when his decapitated finger had the only ring that mattered? And since Isuldur was in the slice and dice mode, if the other Rings were available on Sauron's prone body, wouldn't he have lifted those as well?

I believe you are correct, Sir. Touche.
Well, the only other option I can come up with is perhaps Sauron was in possession of the Nine, but did not always physically keep them on his person. I don't think it was beyond his power to have created a storage place for them where they were available to him, but inaccessable to the Nazgûl.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Where were they then, 'zactly?

I would say they were with the Nine Wraiths until Sauron took them back in the Third Age.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Galin

I would say they were with the Nine Wraiths until Sauron took them back in the Third Age.

'One Ring to rule them all, One ring to find them...'

Odd, isn't it, that Sauron can demand the Nine Rings back without the Ruling Ring? Seriously, it is a flaw in the plot. If Sauron has the ability to control the Nazgul without the aid of the Ring, then the Ring is unnecessary, isn't it? The Rings of the Elves proved more beneficial to the Free People than the One Ring to its master. If it weren't for mistakes by Sauron and his allies, the Dark Lord would have won the war without the Ring. Had it not been found, he certainly would have won a war of attrition.

I hate to sound heretical, but there is a disconnect there.

[Mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

I hate to sound heretical, but there is a disconnect there.

Shun the nonbeliever! Shuuuuunnnn!!!

I don't think it's an issue, though. If the Ring had never been found, of course Sauron would have pwned, because all that cutting off the Ring did was delay his victory by a few millennia. The Ring was never necessary to Sauron's victory, just really really useful. He was doing fine in the War of the Ring until his paranoia (because he knew the Ring had been found, and he feared a usurper) got in the way.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

'One Ring to rule them all, One ring to find them...'

Odd, isn't it, that Sauron can demand the Nine Rings back without the Ruling Ring? Seriously, it is a flaw in the plot. If Sauron has the ability to control the Nazgul without the aid of the Ring, then the Ring is unnecessary, isn't it? The Rings of the Elves proved more beneficial to the Free People than the One Ring to its master. If it weren't for mistakes by Sauron and his allies, the Dark Lord would have won the war without the Ring. Had it not been found, he certainly would have won a war of attrition.

I hate to sound heretical, but there is a disconnect there.

But wait. I think that the One Ring was made just to control the Nine and their owners. It was just the first stage. Once he had control of them they could do whatever he wanted. The true power of the ring was himself, after all. Maybe he wasn't as stupid as we tend to think. But then this theory does sort of devalue the power of the ring...

Or, what about his other nine fingers? Isildur might have cut one off, but he could have been wearing the others. Then, later when he returned, he could have searched for the remains of his body and found the rings. Or did his body disappear when he "died"?

On the other (third, and therefore not normally possible) hand, he may have just kept them safely somewhere in Mordor where no-one, not even the Nazgul, could find them.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Odd, isn't it, that Sauron can demand the Nine Rings back without the Ruling Ring? Seriously, it is a flaw in the plot.

But we don't know exactly how Sauron got the Rings back, noting (in any case) that the Wraiths had been his slaves for very many years and Sauron was usually a master of deception.

If Sauron has the ability to control the Nazgul without the aid of the Ring, then the Ring is unnecessary, isn't it?

There are levels of control however, and IIRC Tolkien makes the point (or implies it) that when holding the Nine Rings the Dark Lord could trust the Nine even to acquire the One and return it to their Master once acquired -- the search for the One in particular would be a good reason for Sauron to take back the Nine rings. In any event the level of his sway over them otherwise would arguably be largely unknown to Western chroniclers.

The Rings of the Elves proved more beneficial to the Free People than the One Ring to its master. If it weren't for mistakes by Sauron and his allies, the Dark Lord would have won the war without the Ring. Had it not been found, he certainly would have won a war of attrition.

Sauron took a great risk with the Rings of Power yes, but had this deception worked exactly as planned the rewards would have been huge. I didn't work exactly as planned, as we know, and so yes Sauron himself paid the price.