The Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin

[Aiwendil]

Findegil wrote:

In the third note the reason for the wife of Fealgund is very specifically his death in Tol-in-Gaurhoth. Thus it is not useable since we have to switch to Orodreth wife.
But I wonder now if the second note, placed in the story of Beren and Luthien before Felagund leaves Nargothrond is not reffering to Gil-galad as Orodreth’s son? Christopher Tolkien thinks it reffers to Felagunds wife and son. But would not Felagund be much better equiped to order his own wife - obviously the queen of Nargothrond - then Orodreth, the steward?

Reading the second note in isolation, it does rather sound to me as if it refers to Orodreth's wife, not Felagund's.

However, we can't simply read it in isolation. Christopher Tolkien seems rather confident that the third note replaced the second - and this is supported by the fact that the second note was struck out. In the third note, Gil-Galad is clearly Felagund's son, not Orodreth's. I think this strongly suggests that the second note was intended to refer to Felagund's wife/son as well. It seems very unlikely to me that Gil-Galad's parentage would be switched from Felagund to Orodreth and then switched back, without other evidence for such a progression. More likely, he was Felagund's son in all three QS notes and the second note, probably written in haste, was unintentionally expressed ambiguously.

I'm also skeptical of taking the date of Gil-Galad's departure from these QS notes. Christopher Tolkien seems quite certain that these predate the note in GA that places Gil-Galad's (there Fingon's son) departure in 456. Now, one could perhaps speculate that with the final placement of Gil-Galad as Orodreth's son there is an implicit return to the date in the second QS note. But I think such a proposal is highly speculative. If, as I suggest, all three QS notes have Gil-Galad as Felagund's son, then all three would appear to depend on Felagund's movements. In the first proposal, his wife and son depart after his defeat in the Bragollach. In the second, they depart when he leaves on the quest of the Silmaril. In the third, they depart after hearing of his death. I don't see any reason that any of these dates should be particularly favoured if they are in fact Orodreth's wife and son.

So at this point, my vote is still to go with the 456 date and place their departure in this chapter.

[Aran e-Godhellim]

I'm fine with either date.

[gondowe]

Originally Posted by Findegil

§138 ... Therefore it was after called by the {Gnomes}[Elves] {Taur-na-Fuin}[Taur-nu-Fuin], which is Mirkwood, and Delduwath, Deadly Nightshade; ...

Originally Posted by Findegil

§149 ..... and he sent Sauron against them; and all the forest of the northward slopes of that land was turned into a region of dread and dark enchantment, so that it was after called Taur-nu-Fuin, the Forest under Nightshade.

I think is better to omit the first Taur-nu-Fuin, and join the paragrahs into the second with the last translation.

Greetings.

[Aran e-Godhellim]

Well, Deluwaith (no "d") would be modern Sindarin for Deadly Nightshade. Taur-nu-Fuin would be "Forest under Shadow," or "Mirkwood." I think we must keep the first line's distinction between the two names intact.

[gondowe]

Yes, I agree, I wanted to mean that there are redundant the two paragraphs and only maintain the names in the context of the last one.

Greetings

[Aran e-Godhellim]

Oh, okay.

[Aiwendil]

I agree that the two statements about Taur-nu-Fuin are redundant, but it's not immediately obvious to me which should be kept and which removed. I suppose that GA being the later text, it should be the second, despite the fact that the QS description is more vivid. Of course, we could combine them, but this risks awkwardness. I think I would advise:

RB-DB-19.1: But Morgoth pursued his people to the death, until few remained; and he took all the forest and the highland of Dorthonion, save the highest and inmost region, and turned it little by little to a place of such dread and lurking evil that even the Orcs would not enter it unless need drove them. {Therefore it was after called by the {Gnomes}[Elves] {Taur-na-Fuin}[Taur-nu-Fuin], which is Mirkwood, and Deluwaith, Deadly Nightshade; for the trees that grew there after the burning were black and grim, and their roots were tangled, groping in the dark like claws; and those who strayed among them became lost and blind, and were strangled or pursued to madness by phantoms of terror.}

RB-DF-09: <GA {but}But {[struck out: still]} Barahir would not retreat and defended still the remant of his land and folk in Dorthonion. But Morgoth hunted down all that there remained of Elves or Men, and he sent Sauron against them; and all the forest of the northward slopes of that land was turned into a region of dread and dark enchantment, so that it was after called Taur-nu-Fuin, {the Forest under Nightshade}<QS which is Mirkwood, and Deluwaith, Deadly Nightshade>.

Thus we keep both names. An alternative would be to transfer some of the description as well:

RB-DF-09: <GA {but}But {[struck out: still]} Barahir would not retreat and defended still the remant of his land and folk in Dorthonion. But Morgoth hunted down all that there remained of Elves or Men, and he sent Sauron against them; and all the forest of the northward slopes of that land was turned into a region of dread and dark enchantment, so that it was after called Taur-nu-Fuin, {the Forest under Nightshade}<QS which is Mirkwood, and Deluwaith, Deadly Nightshade; for the trees that grew there after the burning were black and grim, and their roots were tangled, groping in the dark like claws; and those who strayed among them became lost and blind, and were strangled or pursued to madness by phantoms of terror>.