Game Thread: Werewolf- this time it's real!

[Kent2010]

If you are her packmate I understand. If not, then remember that I warned you about her.
-Nogrod

Noted. My point is not to disagree with you about this...

Yes Kent, she looks perfcectly reasonable - and that's the whole point. A good wolf who plays the "under-radar" -style wishes to do just that: post only once or twice aDay and do not suspect too many people so that no-one feels bad with you; then come up with a suspicion you can back with an argument of any sorts, preferably something that follows the general prejudices flying around but still is something of your own (that's easier you could imagine and Greenie has made it two times now), then vanish to the shadows. She is dangerous, mind you.

I expect you to know Greenie's style better than me, and in principle what you say about wolf-behavior makes sense - how they might want to stay under the radar. But wolves can't be 'over the radar?' Wolves can't talk our ears off and throw suspicion all over the place?

I'm just saying to consider situations, maybe someone is under the radar as a wolf ploy, but maybe someone posts little because there's no time? Maybe in the rush to vote you don't have the time to look at all the evidence and refine this wonderfully long post of suspicions. What I am saying is try to consider a person's situation, instead of automatically assuming that if someone only posts once or twice a day they must be a wolf because they want to stay under the radar.

If it gives you any comfort, I am willing to do the same for you today, as I said I would for Greenie. I don't think you are particularly suspicious, and I have no doubt you will be here participating. But I think Greenie is an easy target, and could get ganged up on by people who can be here for the deadline and can read through everything.

Lets not just look at the vote, but something else she said just looks very innocent:

I have to add to this discussion about granting people a free pass on Day 1 for different reasons. I think it's a sort of nice courtesy not to lynch people on Day 1 in their first game - or in their first game in a very long while - unless there is hard evidence against them. Deciding not to lynch somebody because that said person is enjoyable to play with is a trifle more complicated, since the person voted for instead easily gets a feeling that s/he is not as enjoyable to play with as someone else. And that, in my opinion, is one step away from fair play. After all, this game shouldn't be about lynching those you know little and keeping alive those you know and like best, but instead about letting everyone play and treating everyone fairly regardless of whether they are special favourites of yours or not.

I could be fooled by a charm, but this looks honest and innocent.

x'ed with Gwath and Nogrod

[Isabellkya]

I'm beginning to think it is indeed a communication breakdown.

[Lariren Shadow]

I'm here, sorry. I am also noting what our wonderful benevolent mod said about mentioning RL.

As for what I'm thinking about:

I am also worried about the extra votes as well as the vampire character(which I was seeing those references and thinking "there is no vampire roll...oh there is there it is"). Basically the wolves/vampire can save their extra votes for the end as well as the vampire stealing extra votes from someone else. That...just seems like a really good way for the wolves/vampire to either win the game or take out the Seer.

Who I don't like at the moment:
Kent: I'm not sure if it's his style but it seems suspicious to me. I can see where his points can be coming from, but to me he seems way too defensive right now. Whether that is being a newbie wolf or what but I don't like it.

Fea's vote worries me as well. I don't know what to make of it and someone earlier brought up that the odds of Fea being innocent in this game are, well, low. I also wish she could post more and maybe that's where a lot of my worry suspicion is coming from but I understand the not posting. I just don't like it.

And Brinn, who I've been wavering about all Day reading through the posts. She seemed guilty when explaining her vote, but the innocent later and then, I reread, and didn't like anything that I saw.

Most people I have no idea about. I don't really see or like the whole seeing Greenie as a wolf. Maybe its just because I don't see it or maybe it's because, well, its on a sort of hunch that someone else jumped right on.

However, since I know Nog did sort of start the whole thing, reading him toDay he seems rather innocent sounding. So maybe he's right, but I don't like the reasoning behind it at all.

As for the rest of the players, I really have no idea. I really have a big no feel on everyone.

For the wolf not showing up idea: I'm...not sure. I think that it could be a good strategy, however it could not be good to think that. Then it becomes easy to discount the rest of the people and it also becomes an easy way for wolves to hide.

Edit: x-posted with Izzy.

[Kuruharan]

I feel it incumbant to point out that we are in a rather risky situation even beyond what Nogrod has lined out already, which I think he is at least partially right about.

Due to Alonariel's continued absence we are in grave danger of losing two tonight. The likelyhood of the villagers coming out ahead in something like that are, not to put too fine a point on it, rather remote.

I'm not sure there is much that can or should be done about this but I did want to make sure that more than just me were aware of this.

I hope she turns up soon.

More analysis soon.

[Formendacil]

Oh my! It IS quiet this evening...

Only one thought, at the moment: will Alonariel be modfired, or will the phantom show mercy, since he knew of these computer troubles? Not that it should really be mattering to our voting one way or another, but it does put a different light on the situation.

Hmmm... not really any closer to deciding about voting... let's see what my list of examined people looks like now that I add Nog's Top 3 Choices. Bear in mind I'm crudely rounding into three groups. Really, everyone should be in the middle...

Guilty:
Greenie--strictly on the basis of quicksand feeling

Unsure:
Brinn
Kent
Fea--after her weird vote thing.
Kuru--not so much unsure as I completely don't know. He's under my radar.

Not Guilty:
Nogrod
(Fea--before her weird vote thing)

So that's only 6 people in the village... Shasta and Izzy look just as guilty as Greenie to me, but all three of them really haven't posted enough (and I agree with Nog that this can be a potential black mark). Lari is perhaps worse, post-wise, but not raising any alarms... Let's see... that makes... 9 people? Plus me, 10. That leaves 3 (*actually had to go look it up...*): Nilp, Sally, and Gwath--all of whom are COMPLETELY below my radar. This disturbs me; none of those three names should be below my radar.

[Formendacil]

Okay, so waiting for my slow Internet to load, I realised I messed up on my numbers... there's not 13 of us, there are 15, and while I missed Alonariel, I also completely missed Firefoot. Although Firefoot has always been good at keeping a low profile, the sheer number of players do so this game is rather distressing.

EDIT: x-posted with Shasta's vote for me.

[Formendacil]

Okay, my energy is starting to flag. I'm off to bed in a bit, so let's look over my list again...

Guilty:
Greenie
Shasta
Izzy

Unsure:
Brinn
Kent
Fea
Kuru
Sally
Gwath
Alonariel
Firefoot

Not Guilty:
Nogrod
Nilp

This isn't much of a selection... My "Guilty" list is completely in reference to everyone else who ISN'T apparently guilty.

And because this post was made while I was interrupted by a 15 minute phonecall, I'll check the thread before posting something red.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Kuru

Due to Alonariel's continued absence we are in grave danger of losing two tonight. The likelyhood of the villagers coming out ahead in something like that are, not to put too fine a point on it, rather remote.

Indeed. Where is Alonariel? I would've expected her to be here by now. Any idea what's going on, Lari or Fea? There's still a little under three hours, but nevertheless it's a bit worrisome.

I'm not as worried about Lari or Shasta since they have shown up, though I hope they remember to return and vote in time. Were there any other non-voters? I don't think so...

Thoughts:

Nogrod is acting like his typical self. Often he does get lynched because he is so vocal. Even if I disagree with him on things or find some statements rather bold, I know better than to suspect and vote him without further thought. Too often I help get Noggie get lynched as an innocent for that reason. He's one I always want to watch since he can be a clever wolf, but right now I don't see anything particularly suspicious about him.

I'm not sure what to think of Fea's vote. She tends to make bold moves like that regardless of role it seems. It's not really that she voted Noggie or used her bonus votes that makes me wary, but that she gave him five votes without explanation. Maybe she said she suspected him earlier in the Day and I've forgotten, but it seems like that vote came out of nowhere.

Some other thoughts: I'm liking Greenie right now. Formy makes me slightly uneasy for some unknown reason. I will probably go back and take a look at the bandwaggoners of yesterDay. Obviously not all of them are evil and it's easy for innocents to get caught in a bandwagon early in the game. But I really wouldn't be surprised if at least one was a baddie; after all it's easy for a wolf to hide in a bandwagon and pretend to be a misguided innocent. I haven't really given much thought to who I will vote for, though I think I might try voting a bit earlier toDay. I never mean to wait until the last minute, but it seems I always do.

EDIT: X-ed since #351

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Nogrod is acting like his typical self. Often he does get lynched because he is so vocal.

This is a very important point to keep in mind, everybody. I've experienced the same thing several times: Nogrod's style will rub me the wrong way, we argue, and then we both get lynched.

[Kent2010]

++Kuru(+5)

I hope others will see how Kuru blew up the entire newbie situation. In post 312 I considered the matter closed and told Fea (and Brinn before) I understand the logic now. It wasn't until Firefoot said I looked a little obsessive and Kuru ran with off it that this then become exagerrated.

crossed with Firefoot crap I don't want Nogrod lynched.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Kent2010

I hope others will see how Kuru blew up the entire newbie situation. In post 312 I considered the matter closed and told Fea (and Brinn before) I understand the logic now. It wasn't until Firefoot said I looked a little obsessive and Kuru ran with off it that this then become exagerrated.

Yeah, I noticed.

[Nogrod]

Even if I don't like Firefoot's vote she looks innocentish indeed ie. her explanation makes sense.

[satansaloser2005]

You people are giving me a headache.


(This is to say that it's one of those days when I've read through the thread and went to post....then realized I didn't comprehend a bit of it. I honestly don't feel comfortable voting toDay but if for some reason I really dislike the way the voting is going I'll step in. For now though, it's just not the best idea, since I can't seem to get any sort of bad vibes from anyone....well, at least not any that I feel I could pursue with a good conscience, as I'm afraid I could kill another fellow ordo, or worse, a gifted.)

ETA: Just to be clear, I'm not frustrated by anyone in the game, nor am I cross with you. My brain just kind of exploded.

[Gwathagor]

These are just my responses from when I was reading. There's not a ton of substance, I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by Firefoot

Well, obviously Agan was not the seer. If Kuru is not a wolf, the wolves would have known this, so this wouldn't be the reason that they killed her, as she would have just been an ordo (or a non-seer gifted).

I really don't understand what you're saying here. Is it important?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I just realised it when Fea finally posted something...

Now in a game organised by the phantom, what do you think are the odds that Fea is not a baddie? Zero. What are the chances she is Thuringwethil? I'd say 75%.

And what she said gives one reason to believe that it is so.

I presume you don't intend for us to take this argument very seriously? Shouldn't there be a winkey-smiley there or something?

Originally Posted by Kent2010

Don't worry, I got ya, I think it was just the wording and my own paranoia. Is it natural to think everyone is after you and around every corner your killer awaits?

When I first started playing, I was so paranoid that I had trouble eating at the cafeteria...so many potential enemies.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

One thing about style once more. Why do you say grasping it "a tad too hard"? What was "too hard" there? Giving a reason and a vote? Now that kind of talk is called rhetorics which is the most convenient tool for those who know what they are doing.

I should point out that rhetoric is simply a tool, and as such can be used with equal ease for good or bad. It should not, on its own, be used as a pejorative term - what matters is the truth or falsehood conveyed. Besides, rhetoric (i.e. speaking persuasively) is ultimately what Werewolf is all about.

Originally Posted by Kent2010

The original Declaration of Independence, I think people must get a hold of (I should say a copy of the original) because there are spaces and indications of what words should be emphasized and where people should take their breaths/pauses when reading it. Even funnier, Family Guy makes a point of this with the "Right to bear arms," as the framers discuss in the 'editting' process whether that was "clear enough."

That's my favorite part of the Declaration of Independence, too.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

When I first started playing, I was so paranoid that I had trouble eating at the cafeteria...so many potential enemies.

Which is why I prefer my approach to the game. So much less stressing, so much more fun.

But anyway, nice catch there Gwath (some other point in the same post). Actually, during my more thorough perusal of the thread, only you and Kent stand out as particularly enlightening in an innocent way.

There are other ways of enlightening, however--darker ones. More on that later.