Middle-earth Bad Popularity Cup - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Legate of Amon Lanc · 02-22-2009, 01:09 PM

Now this is what I call a hard choice. Two really nice baddies of about the same rank - they are both disgusting, in a way (I would not prefer to having them as friends, really), however, on the other hand I can still sympathise with them in some way (it would be cool to work with them - i.e. occassionally seeing them, as they'd have their own field of work - in Isengard/Cirith Ungol... although the latter is not a place I would like to be in that badly... Minas Morgul would be far better). They are both interesting characters, and really good villains.

Hmm... I have to choose yet

Ibrîniðilpathânezel · 02-22-2009, 03:10 PM

++Wormtongue

Because unlike an orc, he chose his lot in life.

Groin Redbeard · 02-22-2009, 05:53 PM

Grima is a corrupting snake who let his master work through him; although, I am sure that he is not without his talents of corruption.

On the other hand, Shagrat was sharp to grasp the situation around him and quick to react to the circumstances. Shagrat shows more independency than Grima.

++Shagy Rat

Tuor in Gondolin · 02-22-2009, 07:41 PM

Shagrat (or his chum Gorbag) could have made for one of the
Professor's semi-throwaway stories (no doubt uncovered
in a philological investigation into the origin of orcish) or
perhaps as part of a "Concerning Orcs" section at the end of
LOTR. Perhaps something like the bit on the Druedain in
Unfinished Tales.

Then again one can imagine a chronicler in Gondor penning
a revisionist "Grima's Tale" with a sympathetic backstory
of unrequited love, working to save Rohan from inevitable
destruction, etc.

Hmm. + + Shagrat. Who would have made mincemeat of
The Great Goblin if he had been able to get back to
freelance gangsterism (just like the good old days with
Gorbag).

Legate of Amon Lanc · 02-23-2009, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

On the other hand, Shagrat was sharp to grasp the situation around him and quick to react to the circumstances. Shagrat shows more independency than Grima.

Well, interesting, isn't it? He was not "independant" in the sense of duty: he remained faithful to the orders from above. However, I daresay that was exactly what showed his, hmm, virtue (if you can find something like that with an Orc... but apparently, you can)? I mean: he was able to overcome his selfish greed (which he certainly had like a good Orc) and he was able to decide for himself, independantly indeed, to follow his duties, even if it meant facing Gorbag and a scary Great Elven Warrior. Hey, how nice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

Shagrat (or his chum Gorbag) could have made for one of the
Professor's semi-throwaway stories (no doubt uncovered
in a philological investigation into the origin of orcish) or
perhaps as part of a "Concerning Orcs" section at the end of
LOTR. Perhaps something like the bit on the Druedain in
Unfinished Tales.

Then again one can imagine a chronicler in Gondor penning
a revisionist "Grima's Tale" with a sympathetic backstory
of unrequited love, working to save Rohan from inevitable
destruction, etc.

Aah yes, indeed

(I like both the ideas.)

Hmm, so what... I might as well flip a coin.

We need some more Orcs.

++Shagrat

Andsigil · 02-23-2009, 05:48 AM

I hate quislings with an undying passion, so...

++Wormtongue

Macalaure · 02-23-2009, 01:30 PM

++Gríma

Nasty traitor wins over mere brute.

02-22-2009, 01:09 PM	#1
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Now this is what I call a hard choice. Two really nice baddies of about the same rank - they are both disgusting, in a way (I would not prefer to having them as friends, really), however, on the other hand I can still sympathise with them in some way (it would be cool to work with them - i.e. occassionally seeing them, as they'd have their own field of work - in Isengard/Cirith Ungol... although the latter is not a place I would like to be in that badly... Minas Morgul would be far better). They are both interesting characters, and really good villains. Hmm... I have to choose yet __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

02-22-2009, 03:10 PM	#2
Ibrîniðilpathânezel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Back on the Helcaraxe Posts: 733	++Wormtongue Because unlike an orc, he chose his lot in life. __________________ Call me Ibrin (or Ibri) :) Originality is the one thing that unoriginal minds cannot feel the use of. — John Stewart Mill

02-22-2009, 05:53 PM	#3
Groin Redbeard Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Facing the world's troubles with Christ's hope! Posts: 1,635	Grima is a corrupting snake who let his master work through him; although, I am sure that he is not without his talents of corruption. On the other hand, Shagrat was sharp to grasp the situation around him and quick to react to the circumstances. Shagrat shows more independency than Grima. ++Shagy Rat __________________ I heard the bells on Christmas Day. Their old, familiar carols play. And wild and sweet the words repeatof peace on earth, good-will to men! ~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

02-22-2009, 07:41 PM	#4
Tuor in Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,651	Shagrat (or his chum Gorbag) could have made for one of the Professor's semi-throwaway stories (no doubt uncovered in a philological investigation into the origin of orcish) or perhaps as part of a "Concerning Orcs" section at the end of LOTR. Perhaps something like the bit on the Druedain in Unfinished Tales. Then again one can imagine a chronicler in Gondor penning a revisionist "Grima's Tale" with a sympathetic backstory of unrequited love, working to save Rohan from inevitable destruction, etc. Hmm. + + Shagrat. Who would have made mincemeat of The Great Goblin if he had been able to get back to freelance gangsterism (just like the good old days with Gorbag). __________________ The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.'

02-23-2009, 05:48 AM	#6
Andsigil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The Deepest Forges of Ered Luin Posts: 733	I hate quislings with an undying passion, so... ++Wormtongue __________________ Even as fog continues to lie in the valleys, so does ancient sin cling to the low places, the depression in the world consciousness.

02-23-2009, 01:30 PM	#7
Macalaure Fading Fëanorion Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: into the flood again Posts: 2,911	++Gríma Nasty traitor wins over mere brute.

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