LOTR banned!!!!! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Eruwen · 09-10-2002, 06:43 PM

AHHH!!!!

Can you actually believe this would happen? My school just banned us from bringing LOTR books to school. Much less read them.

A guy in my class was caught reading The Two Towers today, and our principle said not to bring it back because it was of "Demonology". And get this... he then asked is there were even any demons IN the book at all. He don't even know who Tolkien is. Is this not fair?

Is my school the only freaking peice of -----------sorry. Got a little carried away. Anyway, has anyone else had this happen to them? Or is it just my school?

Orome · 09-10-2002, 06:57 PM

Where do you go to school? Country/state/city any that apply.

InklingElf · 09-10-2002, 07:00 PM

oh my gosh! How could they call that deomonlogy-or whatever that word is!!!!Tolkien had never intended that! I hope your principal isn't as empty headed as that!-for goodness-sakes-Tolkien has THEOLOGY in his writing!

***The Barrow-Wight*** · 09-10-2002, 07:09 PM

Yes, please share the name and address of your school and the teacher that banned the books.

Anarya SilverBranch · 09-10-2002, 07:11 PM

OMG!!!!! I hate it when people do stuff like that!!!! Your principal should be strung up by his toes for being so judgemental!!

NazgulNumberTen · 09-10-2002, 07:13 PM

and give me his adress...i'll take care of things...oh, did i mention iceicles are the perfect murder weapon? they leave no eveidence... [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

Arie · 09-10-2002, 07:14 PM

Why!Why!?These things make me crazy!-I agree with InklingElf-I mean-if your principal ever learned anything about Tolkien!-well I dunno-is your school private?

mark12_30 · 09-10-2002, 07:20 PM

You might try loaning him a copy of "Finding God in the Lord Of The Rings." It's available at Amazon. It's written from a biblical perspective and has gotten very high reviews from evangelicals, and it might help him to change his perspective.

--Helen

Eruwen · 09-10-2002, 07:28 PM

Well, address and name of my principle is not going to be given. Because, no offense Naz, but I can't get him in trouble that much. We have my mom and a couple other parents that are for it and hopefully will fight against it. And we have some teachers that are with us on this.

But my principle was the old administrator for Hiles Anderson College. {If anyone knows what that is.} If you don't, it is this VERY VERY strict college in some Eastern state of the US. We were scared when we heard he was coming. But yes, he is a little eccentric (sp?) on things like this.

And yes, I do go to a private school. But still, how dare they tell us we can't bring a book back to school!! It's against our rights. It's just fantasy. There is nothing wrong with it.

Oh, and last year, we were required to read The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis for English class. Think about this...if they are banning a book because it has a little bit of magic in it, then we have to ban that book too. And that's just gay.

But anyway, wow. I did not know so many people would respond this quick! Thanks for all of the interest. But is my school seriously the only place on earth that has done this? Cause I'm starting to feel a little weird about it. OMG. THis is Horrible!!

Oh, and Helen, very good idea. I might just try that. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[ September 10, 2002: Message edited by: Eruwen ]

Lindolirian · 09-10-2002, 07:34 PM

Hey now, don't hate people who don't know what they're talkin about. Educate your principle on what he's missing out on and maybe he'll understand better.

Lindolirian · 09-10-2002, 07:36 PM

O and by the way, if he's worried about demons and evilness in LotR, but makes you read the Chronicles of Narnia, just remind him that it was Tolkien who first introduced the great Christian writer, C.S. Lewis, to Christianity.

Ithaeliel · 09-10-2002, 07:40 PM

That's awful! Tell that teacher that if he read the books for himself, maybe he'd see a different perspective. Demonology! It's preposterous! Tolkien was a Catholic, for goodness sake! I've only heard of one way in which demonology could possibly TOUCH LotR, btu that has NOTHING to do with Tolkien's views.

DarkRose · 09-10-2002, 07:50 PM

How HORRIBLE! I would just be furious if my school banned the LOTR books. I'd rebel, coming to school with LOTR merchandies bulging clearly and visibly from my book bag, purse, and clothes. I'd paint my cheeks with elvish symbols. I'd wave around one of the books and bruy my nose in it while walking around the halls, and when bumping into people, I'd scream 'NOBODY BUMPS INTO A DWARF!"
Heh, don't take this sitting down!

I guess you shouldn't be so foolhardy like me. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

My school has never done anything like that, except once, when the Lion King came out on video. They put on the tape for us, when we were in 2nd grade, to watch, and they banned the tape right after that because "the trauma of Simba losing his father was too horrid for the children to witness!"
[img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Joy · 09-10-2002, 07:57 PM

I second Mark12_30's sentiment. The book "Finding God in Lord of the Rings" is a very helpful book to help him understand. Also, the Tolkien/Lewis connection might help to.

Brinniel · 09-10-2002, 09:18 PM

I'm so sorry! That's a horrible thing for your principal to do!

I couldn't imagine what it'd be like if my school banned LOTR considering that the students seem to like Tolkien's writing. I swear that last year at least one third of our school read his books. I believe that reading "The Hobbit" even became a school assignment for some students!

I don't blame you for being furious at your principal.

Morgul Queen · 09-10-2002, 09:35 PM

OMG [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] i cant believe anyone could not like Tolkien let alone ban it thats just...
well i am appalled I think your principal has met my english teacher cause she banned me from bringing the LOTR in to her classroom and aparently the same goes for Tolkiens other works because when she banned LOTR I brought along: The Hobbit, The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales and so on.... [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

Furry-footed Flatfoot the Hobbit · 09-10-2002, 09:42 PM

OH NO!!! When I read your first Message and it didn't list where you where from, I figured this couldn't happen in a school in the US!!! But as I read further down, I found that it did happen here...How Sad!! And to think they had no problem with The Lion, the Witch, and the wardrobe. There are so many Christian values in LOTR...this principle should be tied to a chair and made to read the whole book! This reminds me of when they tried to ban The Wizard of OZ because there couldn't be a "good" witch, but that happened years ago..come on people get a grip, open your minds, and understand what you are reading! Hang in there and I hope your parents let that principle have it! It's wonderfull to have the parents stand up for ya [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] P.S. Does your school have a ban against Harry Potter too???

Nevfeniel · 09-10-2002, 09:45 PM

Paint some signs and have a protest! You can march around in front of his office saying things like, "Demonology? How 'bout theology?" Yeah, I know, that's not too creative, but I'm working on it!

Child of the 7th Age · 09-10-2002, 09:58 PM

Morgul Queen --

Did your teacher give a reason for her decision? And is your school public or private? It is upsetting to hear this from two posters in just a few hours. Has anyone else had this experience?

I used to work in book selection for a large public library system, and also served on the Library Assocation's committee on this. One main part of my job was answering complaints by the public about books. That wasn't a lot of fun!

There were some people who had genuine reservations about some materials, and really knew what they were talking about. Whether I agreed with them or not, I could respect their views. But, time and again, I'd talk to people who simply had never bothered to read the book themselves. They were afraid of something without really knowing what it was.

One of the things I discovered after the publication of the Harry Potter books was that some people who did not like those for theological reasons automatically assumed every fantasy book fell into that same category. And that's just not true.

I think some of the controversy over Tolkien may be spilling out from that which is really too bad. Whether you like Potter or not (I do, at least mildly), I think most of us would agree that there is a difference in style, magical elements, belief system of these two authors, and they shouldn't be equated.

Meanwhile, good luck to both of you. If you can get your parents involved, all the better. Sometimes sadly, schools will totally tune out their own students but will listen to the adults. This is especially true at private schools where parents pay the tuition! Let us know if you have any success.

sharon

Birdland · 09-10-2002, 11:46 PM

Eruwen - You have been given some great suggestions on how to present a thoughtful, reasonable rebuttal to your principal's ban of Tolkien's master work.

The suggestion to supply him with a copy of "Finding God In Lord of the Rings" was excellent (Here's the Amazon link for the book: Finding God In LoTR. Also pointing out that C.S. Lewis was not only a friend and contemporary of Tolkien, but that Tolkien also influenced his writings, would be a master stroke.

Fight ignorance with intellect! Oh, and a letter to the editor of your local paper might not hurt, either. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Great timing for this, since September 21-28 is Banned Books Week!

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: Birdland ]

Rose Cotton · 09-11-2002, 05:16 AM

Banned Books Week? I've never heard of that but it sounds great.

Banning Tolkien. Ugh, they don't have an English word to express my feelings.(well they do, but thier all unessasary on the Barrow Downs)

Just try sitting down with your principal. Tell him politley that you think he was wrong to ban Tolkien and give him good reasons why. Don't accuse him. Make it sound like his mistake is one anyone could make. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] (ya right)

Explain what the book is about and how it's views are good ones.
Show him "Finding God In Lord of the Rings"
Explain Tolkien's conection to C.S. Lewis and back it up with evidence.

If that fails then try petitioning.

Craban · 09-11-2002, 11:16 AM

Does your school have a debate club or a newspaper or some other place where students can express their side of the story?

If not, go outside the school and write a letter to the editor of your local newspaper. Don't mention the principal's name, but describe respectfully what happened and why you think he's wrong. You can request to have your name withheld (but people will respect you and your perspective more if you don't). It might open up a productive dialogue for the whole community.

Cuthalion · 09-11-2002, 11:47 AM

Heh, heh..good old Hiles Anderson strikes again...never thought ultra-conservativism would go quite THAT far! So sorry you and the others in your school are having to be subjected to such narrow-mindedness.

ElanorGamgee · 09-11-2002, 12:31 PM

I find it rather amusing (in a sad sort of way) that your principal proceeded to ask if there were demons in the book and didn't know who Tolkien is. From this it seems to me that your principal is attacking fantasy books in general, along with anything else he doesn't approve of for whatever vague reason he gives. As a Christian, I cannot believe that another Christian would think Tolkien's books a result of the study of demons unless he had not actually read them. Whenever I read The Lord of the Rings, many, many Christian themes jump out at me. And, of course, there is the fact that Tolkien greatly influenced C.S. Lewis to turn to Christianity. I agree with the others who have suggested that you write a letter to the editor. You have my sympathy [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: ElanorGamgee ]

Lilly Loamsdown · 09-11-2002, 01:23 PM

Eruwen you have my pity.
And I agree with (most of) the sugestions that have been given for solutions.
But if the parents and teachers are behind you,and the principal wont listen to reason
a Petition eould definitly be the best bet.
If you send a letter to your laocal newspaper around the same time you may be able to gain the support of the public making it easier to get them to sign your petition.
I hope that whatever you choose to try works,
And I hope your principal comes to his senses soon.
<font color=pink>Lilly

InklingElf · 09-11-2002, 04:21 PM

:;nods::I agree-you should get him a copy of Finding God in the Lord of the Rings!-Everything is in there!

Child of the 7th Age · 09-11-2002, 04:30 PM

One more word of advice....whatever you do, be polite to him. (Frodo is actually a great model for this.) Too often, if a person feels their authority is being challenged, they will slam the door shut without listening to what you have to say. Ask respectfully, but don't be afraid to state your ideas.

Also, you will definitely want to try all roads within the school before you go outside to newspapers, etc. Once you go public, it inevitably turns into a dogfight. That's a final resort if all else fails.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

red · 09-11-2002, 04:48 PM

Though I completely agree that banning most books from schools is wrong, especially for the reason given above - suspected demonology, I can think of a good reason to ban them. Since I am not a high schooler, I don't know what the current fads are, but if the explosion of teenagers in this forum is any clue, LotR is one of them. Teachers should not have to put up with students reading during class when they are supposed to be listening. Though this is obviously not as horrible an offense as talking during class, smoking in the bathroom, or the like, it is still disrespectful to the teacher. If reading LotR during class has become a frequent occurrence in a school, they have good reason to ask students not to bring the books to school.

MYyyPreciousSS · 09-11-2002, 05:16 PM

Thats just wrong. Books shouldn't be banned from school. I'd be like DarkRose and rebel! Wear my LOTR t-shirt, make some LOTR stickers and put them all over my clothes, put my action figures in my pockets, carry all the books, sit in the middle of the hall and start reading...I'd just go crazy and end up in lots of trouble. But of course, thats just me.

My mom's friend is like that though, she doesn't like anything to do with witchcraft and stuff like that. She only saw LOTR because Tolkien was Christian.
People like that bug me, but I guess its just the way the are and its what they believe in.

Marileangorifurnimaluim · 09-11-2002, 05:33 PM

Eruwin, I do wish you would reconsider giving the name of the school and address. I wouldn't recommend posting them publicly in this forum (you'll see some of the responses here are a little.. er.. aggressive), but rather sending a PM to the BW. I think the likes of Gilthalion, one of our administrators who is a devout Christian and former politician, could write a very convincing and polite letter to your principal concerning the nature of the Lord of the Rings.

Well, on the other side of the spectrum, this summer I was discussing the Lord of the Rings with the director of Buddhist studies at Naropa University. He considered it to be a testimony to 'basic goodness.' 10 points for the Buddhists? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

-Maril

Lady_Galadriel · 09-11-2002, 05:41 PM

I'm soo sorry.. That soooo stinks...

We should eat him, and leave his bones and skin hanging in a tree....
(or not...)

InklingElf · 09-11-2002, 06:19 PM

No Galadriel we should not ::composes herself:: We should atleast consider him for his 'STUPIDITY'! who would have thougt? Even my principal isn't as dumb as that!

Ainahithiel of Mirkwood · 09-11-2002, 07:10 PM

Fantasy, FANTASY?? You call the Lord of the books FANTASY??? WHAT THE HECK?? IT could have happened. Do not go judging somthing because it seems a bit far fetched. Look at Gaileo! He said the earth wasn't the center of the universe, and all those pig headed english people (no offense, but everyone was so odd back then in the middle ages and what not) sent him to jail!!! It should not be labled fantasy because no one had seen it happen. Are we such imbiciles that we cannot believe somthing because we have never seen it???????????

Daisy Sandybanks · 09-11-2002, 07:15 PM

Well, I agree with mostly everyone here, but I really like what red said on the whole reading books in class is not a very appropriet thing to do, like he (or she, not really sure on that one...) said, it does disrupt the learning environment, but then again who am I to talk. Iv done it numerous times, heh. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Morgul Queen · 09-11-2002, 10:29 PM

Well i dont read them all the time just when im bored.......oh OK all the time then IM JOKING ijust carry them round all the time
and people dont take to kindly to my Tolkien fandom(Its childish, your at college now, you are too old to like something so babyish(it so obvious these people havent read the books isnt it)cant you like someone who has actually done something for mankind (Ignorants))and try to stop me reading them so i can read something else.
These people are the insane ones not ME!!!

Birdland · 09-11-2002, 10:40 PM

I agree with Red that banning the books if they were a disruption in the classroom - geez, that last sentence sure sounded like an oxymoron - Reading anything in class while the the teacher is trying to do her job would be considered very rude. (OK, yeah, I used to do it, too.)

But it seems that the principal in Eruwen's school is banning the books because of content. It's one thing if he doen't want to list the book on the school's "official" reading list, but to tell students that they can't read the book on school property on their own time is just plain, wrong!

Tirned Tinnu · 09-12-2002, 05:47 AM

Patience, patience, all of you! You must remember this person is in a private school. If the teacher found that all the students were reading LOTR instead of paying attention to their Geometry, I can completely agree with him.
Now on the other side of the coin, I read them at home, and waited for an English class that DID have Tolkien on the menu. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
Therein, I got an "A"...
I do hope no one was searched for the book. One might want to read it on the bus! In any case, I think that it should be left in your room, in a nice safe place, for the time being. I've had precious books taken by teachers that I had to resort to stealing back because they were not going to be returned...they lay in a locked drawer in my teacher's desk along with candy and yoyos.....typical.

[ September 12, 2002: Message edited by: Tirned Tinnu ]

orlandoandsaran · 09-12-2002, 06:43 AM

Eruwen...that's really sad! How can they ban the students from bringing books?? It's a free country and everybody has their own rights!
Sigh...in my sch, I'm...I AM the ONLY one who is reading the LOTR for the 2nd time and everybody are like "You're still reading THAT?? Crazy kid."
My english teacher teaches my class like we're still in junior school and i bet she doesn't even know Tolkien...during a free period, i was reading the LOTR and she came up and said,"Hmm! Thick book. Good."
???!!???
Well,hope your principl (grrr) changes his view on Tolkien...just take the advice you were getting from the people up there!

[img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Daisy Sandybanks · 09-12-2002, 02:24 PM

Yes, well so far from what I have heard, there is not much as to what you can do about it now. I don't always read books in class, and if I do, it is usally at the begining or during break.
I guess you could have some sort of meeting with the Principle or Vice Principle and discuss you're opinions on why that particular book should be banned, and if that does not work, then you will just have to live with the situation and read your books at home.
Oh, and by the way, are there any other books that are banned from your school for the same content (Harry Potter and that sort...)?

Orome · 09-12-2002, 04:15 PM

What i think you should do is get a beaten up copy of one of the books and bring it in, conspicuously. if he comfiscates it, you can have your parents complain, and junk like that, and if he doesn't have the guts to take it you have won. You could end up in trouble if you do this, but personally i don't think anyone will be stupid enough to keep a kid from reading. Just make sure you don't read when you are not supposed to, cause then you have no room to protest because they can just say you were reading at an innapropriate time.

good luck with it

09-10-2002, 06:43 PM	#1
Eruwen Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 892	LOTR banned!!!!! AHHH!!!! Can you actually believe this would happen? My school just banned us from bringing LOTR books to school. Much less read them. A guy in my class was caught reading The Two Towers today, and our principle said not to bring it back because it was of "Demonology". And get this... he then asked is there were even any demons IN the book at all. He don't even know who Tolkien is. Is this not fair? Is my school the only freaking peice of -----------sorry. Got a little carried away. Anyway, has anyone else had this happen to them? Or is it just my school?

09-10-2002, 07:09 PM	#4
*The Barrow-Wight* Night In Wight Satin Join Date: May 2000 Posts: 4,043	Yes, please share the name and address of your school and the teacher that banned the books. __________________ The Barrow-Wight

09-10-2002, 07:11 PM	#5
Anarya SilverBranch Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: In maiden meditation, fancy free. Posts: 245	OMG!!!!! I hate it when people do stuff like that!!!! Your principal should be strung up by his toes for being so judgemental!! __________________ Snow white! Snow White! O' Lady Clear! O' Queen Beyond the Western Seas! O' light to us that wander here amid the world of woven trees!

09-10-2002, 07:13 PM	#6
NazgulNumberTen Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Crawled in a dark corner Posts: 369	and give me his adress...i'll take care of things...oh, did i mention iceicles are the perfect murder weapon? they leave no eveidence... [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] __________________ "It's not stupid, it's advanced!" -Invader Zim

09-10-2002, 07:14 PM	#7
Arie Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fangorn Forest Posts: 50	Why!Why!?These things make me crazy!-I agree with InklingElf-I mean-if your principal ever learned anything about Tolkien!-well I dunno-is your school private? __________________ "Don't tell me of facts, I never believe facts; you know Canning said nothing was so fallacious as facts, except figures."--Sydney Smith

09-10-2002, 06:57 PM	#2
Orome Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 195	Where do you go to school? Country/state/city any that apply.

09-10-2002, 07:00 PM	#3
InklingElf Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 402	oh my gosh! How could they call that deomonlogy-or whatever that word is!!!!Tolkien had never intended that! I hope your principal isn't as empty headed as that!-for goodness-sakes-Tolkien has THEOLOGY in his writing!

09-10-2002, 07:20 PM	#8
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	You might try loaning him a copy of "Finding God in the Lord Of The Rings." It's available at Amazon. It's written from a biblical perspective and has gotten very high reviews from evangelicals, and it might help him to change his perspective. --Helen __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

09-10-2002, 07:28 PM	#9
Eruwen Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 892	Well, address and name of my principle is not going to be given. Because, no offense Naz, but I can't get him in trouble that much. We have my mom and a couple other parents that are for it and hopefully will fight against it. And we have some teachers that are with us on this. But my principle was the old administrator for Hiles Anderson College. {If anyone knows what that is.} If you don't, it is this VERY VERY strict college in some Eastern state of the US. We were scared when we heard he was coming. But yes, he is a little eccentric (sp?) on things like this. And yes, I do go to a private school. But still, how dare they tell us we can't bring a book back to school!! It's against our rights. It's just fantasy. There is nothing wrong with it. Oh, and last year, we were required to read The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis for English class. Think about this...if they are banning a book because it has a little bit of magic in it, then we have to ban that book too. And that's just gay. But anyway, wow. I did not know so many people would respond this quick! Thanks for all of the interest. But is my school seriously the only place on earth that has done this? Cause I'm starting to feel a little weird about it. OMG. THis is Horrible!! Oh, and Helen, very good idea. I might just try that. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [ September 10, 2002: Message edited by: Eruwen ]

09-10-2002, 07:34 PM	#10
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,117	Hey now, don't hate people who don't know what they're talkin about. Educate your principle on what he's missing out on and maybe he'll understand better. __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

09-10-2002, 07:36 PM	#11
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,117	O and by the way, if he's worried about demons and evilness in LotR, but makes you read the Chronicles of Narnia, just remind him that it was Tolkien who first introduced the great Christian writer, C.S. Lewis, to Christianity. __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

09-10-2002, 07:40 PM	#12
Ithaeliel Cornus Caliga Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Five-hundred-twenty-five thousand, six hundred minutes from here Posts: 710	That's awful! Tell that teacher that if he read the books for himself, maybe he'd see a different perspective. Demonology! It's preposterous! Tolkien was a Catholic, for goodness sake! I've only heard of one way in which demonology could possibly TOUCH LotR, btu that has NOTHING to do with Tolkien's views. __________________ That best portion of a good man's life, His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. .................William Wordsworth

09-10-2002, 07:50 PM	#13
DarkRose Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sauron's Garden Posts: 157	How HORRIBLE! I would just be furious if my school banned the LOTR books. I'd rebel, coming to school with LOTR merchandies bulging clearly and visibly from my book bag, purse, and clothes. I'd paint my cheeks with elvish symbols. I'd wave around one of the books and bruy my nose in it while walking around the halls, and when bumping into people, I'd scream 'NOBODY BUMPS INTO A DWARF!" Heh, don't take this sitting down! I guess you shouldn't be so foolhardy like me. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] My school has never done anything like that, except once, when the Lion King came out on video. They put on the tape for us, when we were in 2nd grade, to watch, and they banned the tape right after that because "the trauma of Simba losing his father was too horrid for the children to witness!" [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] __________________ "All rivers go to the sea, yet never does the sea become full."

09-10-2002, 07:57 PM	#14
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,012	I second Mark12_30's sentiment. The book "Finding God in Lord of the Rings" is a very helpful book to help him understand. Also, the Tolkien/Lewis connection might help to. __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

09-10-2002, 09:18 PM	#15
Brinniel Reflection of Darkness Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Polishing the stars. Well, somebody has to do it; they're looking a little bit dull. Posts: 2,983	I'm so sorry! That's a horrible thing for your principal to do! I couldn't imagine what it'd be like if my school banned LOTR considering that the students seem to like Tolkien's writing. I swear that last year at least one third of our school read his books. I believe that reading "The Hobbit" even became a school assignment for some students! I don't blame you for being furious at your principal. __________________ Nolite te bastardes carborundorum Last edited by Brinniel; 02-04-2007 at 01:10 AM.

09-10-2002, 09:35 PM	#16
Morgul Queen Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dontgonearthe Castle Posts: 414	OMG [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] i cant believe anyone could not like Tolkien let alone ban it thats just... well i am appalled I think your principal has met my english teacher cause she banned me from bringing the LOTR in to her classroom and aparently the same goes for Tolkiens other works because when she banned LOTR I brought along: The Hobbit, The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales and so on.... [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] __________________ Athrabeth is still doing the wave for Boromir the Disco-King Oh...and call me Morgy!

09-10-2002, 09:42 PM	#17
Furry-footed Flatfoot the Hobbit Pile O'Bones Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 13	OH NO!!! When I read your first Message and it didn't list where you where from, I figured this couldn't happen in a school in the US!!! But as I read further down, I found that it did happen here...How Sad!! And to think they had no problem with The Lion, the Witch, and the wardrobe. There are so many Christian values in LOTR...this principle should be tied to a chair and made to read the whole book! This reminds me of when they tried to ban The Wizard of OZ because there couldn't be a "good" witch, but that happened years ago..come on people get a grip, open your minds, and understand what you are reading! Hang in there and I hope your parents let that principle have it! It's wonderfull to have the parents stand up for ya [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] P.S. Does your school have a ban against Harry Potter too??? __________________ Furry-footed Flatfoot the Hobbit from Haysend

09-10-2002, 09:45 PM	#18
Nevfeniel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mithlond Posts: 783	Paint some signs and have a protest! You can march around in front of his office saying things like, "Demonology? How 'bout theology?" Yeah, I know, that's not too creative, but I'm working on it! __________________ Consider the purr a variety of audible tranquilizer. [. . .] For a few of us, there is one more purr, a secret purr. When we combine our secret purrs, we produce the Purr of Power. And that is simply the amplified amity we feel as furred and purred beings.

09-10-2002, 09:58 PM	#19
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Morgul Queen -- Did your teacher give a reason for her decision? And is your school public or private? It is upsetting to hear this from two posters in just a few hours. Has anyone else had this experience? I used to work in book selection for a large public library system, and also served on the Library Assocation's committee on this. One main part of my job was answering complaints by the public about books. That wasn't a lot of fun! There were some people who had genuine reservations about some materials, and really knew what they were talking about. Whether I agreed with them or not, I could respect their views. But, time and again, I'd talk to people who simply had never bothered to read the book themselves. They were afraid of something without really knowing what it was. One of the things I discovered after the publication of the Harry Potter books was that some people who did not like those for theological reasons automatically assumed every fantasy book fell into that same category. And that's just not true. I think some of the controversy over Tolkien may be spilling out from that which is really too bad. Whether you like Potter or not (I do, at least mildly), I think most of us would agree that there is a difference in style, magical elements, belief system of these two authors, and they shouldn't be equated. Meanwhile, good luck to both of you. If you can get your parents involved, all the better. Sometimes sadly, schools will totally tune out their own students but will listen to the adults. This is especially true at private schools where parents pay the tuition! Let us know if you have any success. sharon __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

09-10-2002, 11:46 PM	#20
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,751	Eruwen - You have been given some great suggestions on how to present a thoughtful, reasonable rebuttal to your principal's ban of Tolkien's master work. The suggestion to supply him with a copy of "Finding God In Lord of the Rings" was excellent (Here's the Amazon link for the book: Finding God In LoTR. Also pointing out that C.S. Lewis was not only a friend and contemporary of Tolkien, but that Tolkien also influenced his writings, would be a master stroke. Fight ignorance with intellect! Oh, and a letter to the editor of your local paper might not hurt, either. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Great timing for this, since September 21-28 is Banned Books Week! [ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: Birdland ]

09-11-2002, 05:16 AM	#21
Rose Cotton Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: A place worse then Mordor........School! Posts: 1,075	Banned Books Week? I've never heard of that but it sounds great. Banning Tolkien. Ugh, they don't have an English word to express my feelings.(well they do, but thier all unessasary on the Barrow Downs) Just try sitting down with your principal. Tell him politley that you think he was wrong to ban Tolkien and give him good reasons why. Don't accuse him. Make it sound like his mistake is one anyone could make. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] (ya right) Explain what the book is about and how it's views are good ones. Show him "Finding God In Lord of the Rings" Explain Tolkien's conection to C.S. Lewis and back it up with evidence. If that fails then try petitioning. __________________ "There's nothing you can do, Harry... nothing... he's gone."-Remus Lupin "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."-Pippin (now how can you argue with that logic?)

09-11-2002, 11:16 AM	#22
Craban Pile O'Bones Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Dunland, USA Posts: 13	Does your school have a debate club or a newspaper or some other place where students can express their side of the story? If not, go outside the school and write a letter to the editor of your local newspaper. Don't mention the principal's name, but describe respectfully what happened and why you think he's wrong. You can request to have your name withheld (but people will respect you and your perspective more if you don't). It might open up a productive dialogue for the whole community.

09-11-2002, 11:47 AM	#23
Cuthalion Summoner's Soul Mate Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Fighting immigration laws... Posts: 271	Heh, heh..good old Hiles Anderson strikes again...never thought ultra-conservativism would go quite THAT far! So sorry you and the others in your school are having to be subjected to such narrow-mindedness.

09-11-2002, 12:31 PM	#24
ElanorGamgee Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 314	I find it rather amusing (in a sad sort of way) that your principal proceeded to ask if there were demons in the book and didn't know who Tolkien is. From this it seems to me that your principal is attacking fantasy books in general, along with anything else he doesn't approve of for whatever vague reason he gives. As a Christian, I cannot believe that another Christian would think Tolkien's books a result of the study of demons unless he had not actually read them. Whenever I read The Lord of the Rings, many, many Christian themes jump out at me. And, of course, there is the fact that Tolkien greatly influenced C.S. Lewis to turn to Christianity. I agree with the others who have suggested that you write a letter to the editor. You have my sympathy [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] [ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: ElanorGamgee ] __________________ Soli Deo Gloria

09-11-2002, 01:23 PM	#25
Lilly Loamsdown Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: middleofnowhere Posts: 19	Eruwen you have my pity. And I agree with (most of) the sugestions that have been given for solutions. But if the parents and teachers are behind you,and the principal wont listen to reason a Petition eould definitly be the best bet. If you send a letter to your laocal newspaper around the same time you may be able to gain the support of the public making it easier to get them to sign your petition. I hope that whatever you choose to try works, And I hope your principal comes to his senses soon. <font color=pink>Lilly __________________ And sings a solitairy song that whistle in the wind.

09-11-2002, 04:21 PM	#26
InklingElf Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 402	:;nods::I agree-you should get him a copy of Finding God in the Lord of the Rings!-Everything is in there!

09-11-2002, 04:30 PM	#27
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	One more word of advice....whatever you do, be polite to him. (Frodo is actually a great model for this.) Too often, if a person feels their authority is being challenged, they will slam the door shut without listening to what you have to say. Ask respectfully, but don't be afraid to state your ideas. Also, you will definitely want to try all roads within the school before you go outside to newspapers, etc. Once you go public, it inevitably turns into a dogfight. That's a final resort if all else fails. sharon, the 7th age hobbit __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

09-11-2002, 04:48 PM	#28
red Spirit of Mischief Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Land of the free and home of the brave Posts: 366	Though I completely agree that banning most books from schools is wrong, especially for the reason given above - suspected demonology, I can think of a good reason to ban them. Since I am not a high schooler, I don't know what the current fads are, but if the explosion of teenagers in this forum is any clue, LotR is one of them. Teachers should not have to put up with students reading during class when they are supposed to be listening. Though this is obviously not as horrible an offense as talking during class, smoking in the bathroom, or the like, it is still disrespectful to the teacher. If reading LotR during class has become a frequent occurrence in a school, they have good reason to ask students not to bring the books to school. __________________ "Cats are like greatness: Some people are born into cat-loving families, some achieve cats, and some have cats thrust upon them." -William H. A. Carr

09-11-2002, 05:16 PM	#29
MYyyPreciousSS Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: the Here and Now Posts: 113	Thats just wrong. Books shouldn't be banned from school. I'd be like DarkRose and rebel! Wear my LOTR t-shirt, make some LOTR stickers and put them all over my clothes, put my action figures in my pockets, carry all the books, sit in the middle of the hall and start reading...I'd just go crazy and end up in lots of trouble. But of course, thats just me. My mom's friend is like that though, she doesn't like anything to do with witchcraft and stuff like that. She only saw LOTR because Tolkien was Christian. People like that bug me, but I guess its just the way the are and its what they believe in. __________________ Then the heart of Éowyn changed, or else at last she understood it. And suddenly her winter passed, and the sun shone on her. "My Preciousss" - the line that started the obsession.

09-11-2002, 05:33 PM	#30
Marileangorifurnimaluim Eerie Forest Spectre Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Buried in scrolls of fanfiction Posts: 798	Eruwin, I do wish you would reconsider giving the name of the school and address. I wouldn't recommend posting them publicly in this forum (you'll see some of the responses here are a little.. er.. aggressive), but rather sending a PM to the BW. I think the likes of Gilthalion, one of our administrators who is a devout Christian and former politician, could write a very convincing and polite letter to your principal concerning the nature of the Lord of the Rings. Well, on the other side of the spectrum, this summer I was discussing the Lord of the Rings with the director of Buddhist studies at Naropa University. He considered it to be a testimony to 'basic goodness.' 10 points for the Buddhists? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] -Maril __________________ Deserves death! I daresay he does... And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them?

09-11-2002, 05:41 PM	#31
Lady_Galadriel Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Shire, Hobbiton, Middle Earth Posts: 135	I'm soo sorry.. That soooo stinks... We should eat him, and leave his bones and skin hanging in a tree.... (or not...) __________________ " You can't toast me!"

09-11-2002, 06:19 PM	#32
InklingElf Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 402	No Galadriel we should not ::composes herself:: We should atleast consider him for his 'STUPIDITY'! who would have thougt? Even my principal isn't as dumb as that!

09-11-2002, 07:10 PM	#33
Ainahithiel of Mirkwood Animated Skeleton Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Helm's Deep Posts: 26	Fantasy, FANTASY?? You call the Lord of the books FANTASY??? WHAT THE HECK?? IT could have happened. Do not go judging somthing because it seems a bit far fetched. Look at Gaileo! He said the earth wasn't the center of the universe, and all those pig headed english people (no offense, but everyone was so odd back then in the middle ages and what not) sent him to jail!!! It should not be labled fantasy because no one had seen it happen. Are we such imbiciles that we cannot believe somthing because we have never seen it??????????? __________________ "Bygones be and lovers part, I'm asking you to leave my heart. Go in peace, harm to none, my new life, has now begun"

09-11-2002, 07:15 PM	#34
Daisy Sandybanks Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: California Posts: 101	Well, I agree with mostly everyone here, but I really like what red said on the whole reading books in class is not a very appropriet thing to do, like he (or she, not really sure on that one...) said, it does disrupt the learning environment, but then again who am I to talk. Iv done it numerous times, heh. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Knowlege is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.

09-11-2002, 10:29 PM	#35
Morgul Queen Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dontgonearthe Castle Posts: 414	Well i dont read them all the time just when im bored.......oh OK all the time then IM JOKING ijust carry them round all the time and people dont take to kindly to my Tolkien fandom(Its childish, your at college now, you are too old to like something so babyish(it so obvious these people havent read the books isnt it)cant you like someone who has actually done something for mankind (Ignorants))and try to stop me reading them so i can read something else. These people are the insane ones not ME!!! __________________ Athrabeth is still doing the wave for Boromir the Disco-King Oh...and call me Morgy!