T-I-G LVI: Panic at the Prancing Pony

[A Little Green]

What I find interesting is that all of a sudden, even though I have hardly posted at all in the last, say, 12 hours, during the last five hours I seem to have been considered sneaky and suspicious by at least Brinn, Rikae and Lommy. Lovely. I'd love to know why is that or do they just get the same gut-feeling out of nowhere?

Originally Posted by Agan

Elaborate.

Agan, I really think you are being too picky here. Lom's quote indicates to a feeling-based argument, and though it's useful to consider the possible causes for a feeling, I think you are demanding too much. I don't know, possibly Lommins is able to elaborate on an overall feeling such as that; what is certain, however, is that I couldn't and I don't know many who could.

I had something else to say too but I seem to have forgotten that...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Agan, I really think you are being too picky here.

If she can realise that she thinks I am detached about the game, she should also be able to point out what has made her think so.

I hate random suspicions because once someone has a bad feeling about someone else, others start jumping in. Lommy said eg. that she wouldn't be as suspicious about you if it wasn't for other people's suspicions. So yeah.

Okay I am tired but right now I feel almost like voting for her because I'm getting annoyed with her saying "oh she's like this or she's like that" with no reason whatsoever unless specifically requested.

[Aganzir]

Rikae
Mac
Nog
Lommy

There's something going on in there. I feel somewhat positive that there's at least one baddie among them. Because there's just something weird.

Mac has made some suspicious comments.
Lommy has reacted rather strongly to these comments (and accuses me with no reason which I don't like).
Rikae has done some weird stuff but as I see it, she could have done it regardless of her role.
And Nog is just suspicious for his exaggeration of random votes.

++Mac

Because of these his death would shed the most light on other people. I don't have a valid reason to vote for Rikae or Lommy, nor would I really even like to, at least yet. Nog's connection to the others is much more vague.

I'll check Lommy's posts with a magnifying glass tomorrow if we're both still alive.

And then to bed.

[Nogrod]

The basic rule concerning any argument whatsoever: ask the critical questions and do not bog yourself down trying to explain anything.

It's easy to ask the other "why?" or "on what grounds?", but it's much harder to affirm a case or a thought as the critical inquirer can always repeat those questions whatever it is the other says.

ToDay I have no time for it but maybe toMorrow. I should - someone should - look back at the posting and see who are mainly looking good because they appear critical and thence good in that illusory-way smartly pointing at the fouls of others while reserving their own judgement or any positive cases. *This is not directed at you Aganzir, mind you *


Someone - I guess it was Agan - asked why I decided to mention Dury's ranger impersonation -thing on Day1, and as it looks like everyone has forgotten about it or thinks we should not say anything about it, I'll call that issue back as well as I'm having bad gut feelings about Dury.

Yes, I wrestled with myself a bit before making a call for it. But what I ended up with was that:
1) no-one could have not seen it so it was common knowledge that she had done so (just think of my surprise when someone complained s/he didn't understand what was it people were talking about!).
2) looking at the roster in this game it would be quite impossible there were no smart wolves around able to see the poor bluff made by an innocent trying to lure the wolves into attacking her and thence trying to save the real ranger.
3) that given she could be Frodo: a Frodo who would wish to turn into the dark side and thence our enemy...
4) she is not a gifted anyway as that would have been calling the wraiths on her.
5) so is she a wraith trying to lure us into thinking that she's a brave ordo trying to mislead the wraiths? Somehow that explanation seems to be the most believable to me...

Dury is experienced enough not to make the mistake of trying that kind of thing were she a gifted. But also she is experienced enough not to try that as an ordo as that is a no-win scheme (the wolves didn't kill her last Night anyway).

So the best explanation to her behaviour is that she's a wraith...

*Needs to think this again*

[Rikae]

6) It was an IC post. And, lo and behold, Durelin's character is:
"Durelin - Big person dark, mysterious, hooded and cloaked figure".

A joke, no more significant than in that long-ago game when someone chose "weaver" as his occupation. That's how I took it, that's how I'm pretty sure everybody took it (including the wraiths), and that's how I suspect Dury expected it to be taken.

Now, the question is, why is Nog blowing it up like this?

I'm going to respond about my reasons for suspecting Lily, but I'll take a minute. I've been going along, reading the posts, saying to myself "this looks sinister..." at various things, but I can't remember what those things were now and I'll have to look over her posts again.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I'm also tired of forcing myself to come up with points that can back up your guilt just because you could have said so also if guilty.

Poor thing. Please, no longer do that.

Good analysis of Brinn, btw.


A list, just to clear my thoughts before dinner.

Sally has escaped my attention toDay and I should address that.
Fea's reaction to Rikae seems innocent.
Lari has escaped my attention, too.
Mirandir needs to give us more of her thoughts of others. She appears innocent, and especially because of that I'd value some more input.
Lommy appears to be her innocent self.
Legate is sorely missed.
Rikae could be Bill, but is most probably innocent.
Aganzir deserves to be analysed, but I won't be able to do that toDay.
Nogrod, I don't know. Apart from his vote yesterDay he hasn't actually done anything suspicious, but I have some bad feeling about him. I need another look.
Beregond is very newbie-ish, but involved and not afraid to talk. He could be a newbie-wraith, maybe.
Nerwen - I don't think her vote is suspicious and I don't see any other reason to suspect her.
Rune is grumpy and probably innocent.
Menel bugs me, but I'm not sure whether he's evil, too.
Durelin I have no idea about.
A Little Green is creepy, as in very serious and determined, and deserves another look.
Brinniel is innocent, I think.

[Rikae]

Mac, do you realize you just called everybody but Sally, Lari and Lily innocentish?

A baddie who thinks he's about to go down, and wants to avoid giving any leads, or? I really don't want you to be evil. Why do you have to keep doing such evil-looking things? *pouts*

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Nogrod.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Brinn didn't find Rikae's seer comment serious, but found everyone's reactions to it odd. What exactly do you mean by that, Brinn? How were they odd?

At the time, I couldn't see how people were suddenly taking the comment so seriously and I found it odd. I thought it was obvious she was joking.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

She said she couldn't see what benefit could come from Fea pretending Rikae was serious. I can. If Fea had a reason to assume Rikae was joking, it would have been sensible to help set her up as a wolf kill. Of course there was a risk of the real seer revealing, though, which I think is why it wasn't pursued further.

I think you did a better job explaining this than Fea ever did. Yes, you're right, Fea could've had good intentions with her pretended reaction. But it's also possible her intentions were evil. She could've done it to cause distraction or possibly attempt to draw out the real seer. Really, Fea could be anything. One thing I've noticed about her is she likes to mess with everyone's heads, regardless of her role.

Originally Posted by Greenie

What I find interesting is that all of a sudden, even though I have hardly posted at all in the last, say, 12 hours, during the last five hours I seem to have been considered sneaky and suspicious by at least Brinn, Rikae and Lommy. Lovely. I'd love to know why is that or do they just get the same gut-feeling out of nowhere?

My suspicion towards you isn't just a gut-feeling. It was post #247 that raised alarms for me. All of your opinions towards the players are extremely safe, like you're trying to stay on neutral ground not committing one way or another. And yes, you are quite sneaky; in the past you've fallen under my radar quite often. But toDay I find your posts troublesome, even if they are few in numbers.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Okay I am tired but right now I feel almost like voting for her because I'm getting annoyed with her saying "oh she's like this or she's like that" with no reason whatsoever unless specifically requested.

This may be a stupid question, but were you talking about Lommy or Greenie here? I want to say the latter, but I'm not actually sure..

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Mac

A Little Green is creepy, as in very serious and determined, and deserves another look.

Originally Posted by Brinn

My suspicion towards you isn't just a gut-feeling. It was post #247 that raised alarms for me. All of your opinions towards the players are extremely safe, like you're trying to stay on neutral ground not committing one way or another. And yes, you are quite sneaky; in the past you've fallen under my radar quite often. But toDay I find your posts troublesome, even if they are few in numbers.

I get what you mean - but although I know this is no good as a defence I must say my opinions on players are pretty much always like that, if safe means opinions like "could be either way" or "no idea" or "I'm not sure..."

Well, I'm going to vote in a very very little (green) while. I think it's gonna be Nog for me (no, don't hang yourself, it's not because you contribute). In addition to his weird Golly-vote, that Dury thing just doesn't make any sense. It looks something like a crafted case that has failed (deliberately or not) to take into account a very significant factor which is, as Rikae already pointed out, the fact that Dury's role was mysterious cloaked figure or something like that. Dunno, somehow Noggins' behaviour makes me think he's a wolf who's trying just a bit too hard.

Vote in a minute...

[A Little Green]

++ Nog

He's my best bet. Reasons in my earlier posts. Good night and Night.

[Rikae]

Ok, about Lily:

- she spends most of her first post griping about the lack of conversation and "material" to base suspicions on. Yes, I understand the point, but why not say something to get things rolling, instead of excusing her lack of reasons for suspicion?

- askes if the ring bearer's role is revealed if xe is lynched. Not necessarily suspicious, this could be useful info for either side. (Was that question ever answered?)

- Some friendly chit-chat with Berry, then:

Originally Posted by A Little Green

To be honest I have no idea - never played with a guy like that before, whatever the role is called (cursed something?) - but it would sound ideal if no one discovered the identity of our ringbearer. After all, if we find and lynch him/her, we'll be down one innocent regardless of the fact that the particular innocent could have been converted to some nasssty creature. We should probably not use our energy on hunting the ringbearer but instead on hunting the wraiths.

Now, I normally try to avoid suspecting people based on differences of opinion, and I recognize that my own isn't the only possible innocentish opinion on Mr. Frodo... but this looks like a point-by-point list of exactly what the wraiths would want us to think. First, that if Frodo reveals, he should be lynched immediately (so they at least avoid the situation where we have a known innocent), but, better yet, that no one should have any clue who he is or try to find him at all. Maybe she just didn't think it through completely, but it struck me as very creepy.

- the title of one of her posts yesterDay (her vote for Gollum, in fact): "A Shot in the Dark ". Ok, not really reason to suspect her (would wights be that obvious?), but it caught my eye without really registering it then and added to the creepy impression.

-"Good night and Night."

- Overall cheery, breezy, friendly tone.

- Her points on Nog toDay. I don't necessarily trust him, but it looks like she's going after him for basically being himself (with the random votes thing).

- The "carrots" remark really did have a hint-ish look to me.

- Not part of my initial feeling of creepiness, but her reaction to suspicion doesn't look too innocent. It's too... sarcastic, insinuating, I don't know how to say it.

- Another new point: Nog was alraedy her main suspect (or so it looked) before I mentioned Dury's occupation, but she makes that one of her two reasons for voting him. She hadn't commented on it before, and it had been out there for a while.

So yeah, there it is. That and a hunch. Not much of a case, I guess, and I may retract to Mac,or somebody else, if I feel like it later, but there you go.

EDIT: X'd with Lommy.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Rikae

-"Good night and Night."

She always does that and I do that pretty often too, so that's a bad argument.

Originally Posted by Rikae

- Her points on Nog toDay. I don't necessarily trust him, but it looks like she's going after him for basically being himself (with the random votes thing).

She's always going after him. But that, of course, does not prove anything...

I suspect Greenie, but I think you Rikae mostly list stuff she always does. The only unheard of thing on that list is the carrot one, but I'm not sure if it's so bad...

Now I got an urge both to vote and not vote Greenie. Weird.

[Rikae]

Oops, I've gone and done it. I've had to correct myself in multiple posts because I kept wanting to call the wraiths "wights", and above I say:

Originally Posted by yours truly

(would wights be that obvious?)

Yeeeah, whatever.

Something else that occurred to me is that Noggins has to be up to something, since he hasn't been giving me the Spanish Inquisition treatment Lommy mentioned getting from Agan.

EDIT: X'd with Lommy again.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Rikae

6) It was an IC post. And, lo and behold, Durelin's character is:
"Durelin - Big person dark, mysterious, hooded and cloaked figure".

A joke, no more significant than in that long-ago game when someone chose "weaver" as his occupation. That's how I took it, that's how I'm pretty sure everybody took it (including the wraiths), and that's how I suspect Dury expected it to be taken.

Now, the question is, why is Nog blowing it up like this?

I can't see why you ask for that if you're innocent... She's no gifted because that's a bit too daring for a gifted to do. So why that kind of banter which clearly makes her look like a ranger imposter? I can't believe it was "just banter" because it was so fitting and exact - and open. Why to do something that way if you were a) a gifted (no way!), or b) an ordo? I mean on Day6 an ordo should pull that but why she made it in the first post of Day1? I'm regarding Dury as a most intelligent person so then she's probably no ordo as the wrights would not be that easily misled and she would know it. So the remaining option is that she is a wright trying to fool us.

Okay, I may have better cases... I need to see to them.

Funny how you interpret someone voicing a thing as something in a way that one is "pressing on as the sole thing there is". I have been sharing the computer with Lommy and Greenie all the night and we have been playing (RL) together most of the night, so I have just commented on things that have occured to me on my twenty minutes by the computer at a time... Had I more time I could look after some others as well.

Lommy & Greenie just went to bed and it's coming 6AM here... I'd need to vote and go to sleep as well... Just a moment. I'll try to look around before voting.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Nog- go to bed! It's late! So late it's early!

More interestingly as far as the game goes-

I don't think we should lynch Mac.

Not today, in any case.

So um... can we not?

Then again, I don't actually have any better options, so this is quite a useless post...

[Macalaure]

I should have a closer look at Aganzir and Nogrod, but my brain is starting to fail, so I'll postpone that until toMorrow. All I can add at this point is that Nogrod's thing about Durelin makes no sense, and his insistence on it makes me suspicious. Whether or not it is significant I cannot say yet, so I will neither vote him toDay, nor Aganzir.

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, back but I'm babysitting for one of my ex-coworker's kids so I'll probably pop in and maybe vote, if I feel that I can do so fairly confidently.

So, without reading toDay in great detail, I was really concerned by yesterDay's voting of Gollum. Now while Mac was trying to save himself, upon looking it over again I think it was more of an innocent Mac trying to save himself while the wraiths took advantage of it.


I'm really sorry I've not been around more. I know it's Saturday, so theoretically I should have been around more but with Emily coming back and everything it's been nuts. I'll do what I can but for now accept apologies for my laziness.


Blah. I need to go. Hopefully back soon.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

So, without reading toDay in great detail, I was really concerned by yesterDay's voting of Gollum. Now while Mac was trying to save himself, upon looking it over again I think it was more of an innocent Mac trying to save himself while the wraiths took advantage of it.

I'm sorry, but that really doesn't make any sense at all, as far as I can see. Why would the wraiths "take advantage" of an innocent Mac's desire to save himself in order to lynch an ordo Gollum? If Mac is innocent, wouldn't they be equally happy to see him go? Nerwen's vote looked odd to me at the time (mostly the way she seemed to have no opinion, but pounce on Gollum as soon as he became an option), but I still don't think your scenario is logical.

Actually, the only logical evil-Nerwen explaination I can think of is that Nerwen is Ferny, and thought any of those three could well have been wraiths, while Gollum couldn't.

EDIT: X'd with Lommy, as always, and Nerwen herself.

[Lariren Shadow]

Sorry to again be gone for the almost entry Day.

In RL I went wine tasting, so I needed a lot of time to recover. On page 9 by this point.

As for the suspicions: I was going to restate the ones that previous people said. I know I was called out last time for doing that so I decided not to.

Putting it out there though: the vote from the end of yesterday made me really think. It didn't look right, even if I've seen Mac do that before. When he did it before it was really into the game, now it was really quick. Not to mention his quick accusations of only three people while everyone else apparently looks innocentish(never mind there still isn't a lot to go on).

Nerwen also didn't come off too good in that episode either.