Hardly an American 'Stand' in...

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

King makes another comment in the forward that he had wanted to write a Tolkienesque fantasy, but gave it a bit of a western setting to set it apart. He said something along the lines of the world already having all the elves, hobbits, and trolls it needed.

What? He couldn't imagine dwarves riding horses and hobbits wearing chaps? I can just see the Fellowship sitting around the campfire, drinking coffee and eating beans. Oh, wait, that was another western.

Now I'm going away to practice delivering some of Frodo's lines in a John Wayne drawl. Or some of John Wayne's lines with a big-eyed hurt look.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Now I'm going away to practice delivering some of Frodo's lines in a John Wayne drawl. Or some of John Wayne's lines with a big-eyed hurt look.

I'd love to hear the late Walter Brennan doing the Gaffer in his old, rheumy western drawl: "Eh-heh-heh, hey dude, I don't go in fer wearin' iron-mongery, whether it wears well or no, consarnit."

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

What? He couldn't imagine dwarves riding horses and hobbits wearing chaps?

As I recall, an artist who did the covers for one of the early editions of LotR (the Dutch edition) did depict Aragorn in a cowboy hat. I saw it once upon a time, but I can't find the image on the web anymore. Too bad. It was amusing.

I was actually quite amazed to hear that King considered TS his "American version" of LotR. To me, it felt more like his take on a Michael Crichton novel (The Andromeda Strain, perhaps). Or maybe Richard Adams' Plague Dogs.

[alatar]

King may have been trying to create a Gollum-like character when he penned 'The Trashcan Man.' This semi-sympathetic character has many traits of Smeagol:

• is persistent beyond human ability,

• is single-minded though very clever,

• is disfigured,

• wants to serve the Dark Man in order to be a part of something

• gets betrayed

• with some deus ex machina, ends up toppling the evil of the era

• should have been named 'Bumpty-bumpty-bump' much for the same reason Smeagol is named Gollum

Some of the characters on the bad side are really mean sick sociopaths that you can't help but root against. Not Trash, however. He burns down a few cities by igniting large oil containers, but he never actually tries to hurt anyone (though surely some do get hurt). He has a Ring-like obsession with fire, and that's why he burns. The Dark Man promises to allow him to burn the world, and so Trash signs on..."My life for you!"

Reading about Trash's life, you realize that he's one messed up person, but it seems that he never had a choice. His father - insane - was shot by the sheriff who then marries his mother. The locals torment him endlessly. Trash gets sent off to a treatment center that uses electrical shocks to rehabilitate him. He eventually makes it back home and, not being able to control his desire for fire, ends up in jail, where he learns a little information that helps him later - like about morphine and antibiotics, which comes in helpful when he scalds his arm.

Most of his fires are a desire for vengeance, like the town he burns down where his dad-shooting stepfather lived. He also burned down a church, as he believes that God never responded to his prayers.

In regards to the book, I noticed a few other comparisons with the English LotR. One is that the American stand in is way too gritty. When you read LotR, you imagine (maybe) what may be going on in the pits of Mordor, but in The Stand, you get to read about the evils that men do - it's not a book for children or younger adults. The grit takes the fantasy part away. That and the mixing of Christian mythology and some history, which, when you start thinking about it, doesn't make much sense. Maybe that's the trouble with trying to write a LotR in the Primary World.

Oh, and one more thing: I remember some 'discussion' regarding Gimli sprinting across Rohan, and the problems with the same. Well, The Stand has that controversy as well, as the Trashcan Man, wanting to pass as quickly as possible through the state of Nebraska (the home of Mother Abigail), pedals a bicycle 400 miles in three days!

[William Cloud Hicklin]

A timely thread, given that al-Qaeda seems to have been playing with (and released) bubonic plague in North Africa.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

A timely thread, given that al-Qaeda seems to have been playing with (and released) bubonic plague in North Africa.

I heard about that as well, and here's a link. To me, I'm not sure what's most frightening...actual plague/pandemic, the fear (and overreaction) of the same or that Stephen King will be heralded as a visionary.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by alatar

I heard about that as well, and here's a link. To me, I'm not sure what's most frightening...actual plague/pandemic, the fear (and overreaction) of the same or that Stephen King will be heralded as a visionary.

I'd vote for the latter.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I'd vote for the latter.

You obviously haven't read the *uncut* version of The Stand.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

A timely thread, given that al-Qaeda seems to have been playing with (and released) bubonic plague in North Africa.

Aren't they all dead though? As The Sun gleefully reported the other day....

This sounds like Terry Nation's Survivors, which has recently been revived by BBC1 though I got fed up with it after a couple of episodes. I like dystopian fiction but apocalyptic fiction I find quite depressing - The Road probably gives the most realistic account of what would happen, which isn't a very cheery thought

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Aren't they all dead though?

And the rats........?

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Aren't they all dead though? As The Sun gleefully reported the other day....

It's being spun both ways. One side is saying that the CIA is behind it as it's a low tech yet effective way of combating terrorists, as they don't have access to antibiotics, as we do. The other side is saying that this is more like bio-warfare gone awry, just like in The Stand.

Note that 'plague' is treatable. Check out the CDC for more plague information. For anyone getting nervous (sorry!), there's a *whole* lot more to worry about than just the plague...unless you have it, of course.

Didn't the Gondorians experience plague as well?

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Actually, I have.

Sorry for my playful retort. If you've read the book...well, I shouldn't add to your suffering.

It's notable that the disease of the book was a "superflu", deliberately modified to be of the "shifting antigen" varity, which was the cause of its overwhelming mortality rate. This real event involves an apparently entirely natural disease caused by endemic environmental factors.

To use an argument from authority, I, as a former molecular biologist, find King's science not very deep. Why, for an example, does this ever-mutating flu still kill the entire world population in pretty much the same way? Why too does it maintain its ability to kill domestic creature and not their closely-related cousins? If the scientists were able to engineer the bacterium/virus with such specificity, then it's highly unlikely that they weren't able to have a means to combat it already on hand - if I can keep it from killing wolves and weasels, then I know how they differ from dogs, and so I also would know how I could prevent myself from being attacked by the same.

And I guess that King's monkeys are domestic (which, if you had a thousand of them... ), as I think that Larry Underwood watches one kick off. Now, how related are we to monkeys? Or did King mean apes? Or was the plague just a convenient way to quickly set up his primary or secondary world in under a few thousands pages?

Methinks it is the later.

Thanks for posting, and if you've read it, I'd like to read your thoughts on how it compares to LotR.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

And the rats........?

Which sort of plague was it though? Am I right that one type is carried by rats/fleas while another is transmitted human-to-human?

Originally Posted by alatar

It's being spun both ways. One side is saying that the CIA is behind it as it's a low tech yet effective way of combating terrorists, as they don't have access to antibiotics, as we do. The other side is saying that this is more like bio-warfare gone awry, just like in The Stand.

Note that 'plague' is treatable. Check out the CDC for more plague information. For anyone getting nervous (sorry!), there's a *whole* lot more to worry about than just the plague...unless you have it, of course.

Well you've reassured me at least I suppose plague is something we already know about and can prepare medicines to deal with, whereas Flu constantly mutates. Though there's been precious little in our media about this apart from in The Sun!