Tom Bombadil

[Vaine]

Originally Posted by FeRaL sHaDoW

I always saw Tom as a cross between Santa and a Leprechaun.
As for who and what he is, maybe Bombadil is the incarnation of Arda itself??

Seems we share the same idea

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Not to sound grouchy, purely because I sense a couple of you will be interested and don't yet know, there are dozens of Bombadil threads on the Downs: try the search function and prepare to be bamboozled.

I prefer the Balrog threads myself.

[Laurinquë]

There are indeed a great deal of Tom Bombadil threads, but I still think it is fun to start a new discussion.

As for the Bombadil-Eru argument; I realise that Tolkien describes Tom as an enigma, and well, who is going to argue with the author himself? But I still like pondering the possibilities, I haven't been on the Downs long enough to get nauseated by the idea I suppose.

[narfforc]

I thought I might throw this into the discussion.....;but with Aule was that great lady Palurien whose delights were richness and fruits of the earth, for which reason has she long been called Yavanna among the Eldar. About them fared a great host who are the sprites of trees and wood, of dale and mountain-side, or those that sing amid the grass at morning and chant among the standing corn at eve. These are the Nermir and the Tavari, Nandini and Orossi, brownies, fays, pixies, leprawns, and what else are they not called, for their number is very great: yet must they not be confused with the Eldar, for they were born before the world and are older than it's oldest, and are not of it, but laugh at it much, for had they not somewhat to do with it's making, so that it is for the most part a play for them.......

A greater character reference for Tom Bombadil could not be written, however this was never published in Tolkiens lifetime so we have no idea whether he would have included it in the Silmarillion. What was published in the Silmarillion, was this........With the Valar came other spirits whose being also began before the world, of the same order as the Valar but of less degree. These are the Maiar, the people of the Valar, and their servents and helpers. Their number is not known to the Elves, and few have names in any of the tongues of the Children of Iluvatar.


In the notes Christopher says:- Particularly interesting is the passage concerning the host of lesser spirits who accompanied Aule and Palurien, from which one sees how old is the conception of the Eldar as quite dissimilar in essential nature from 'brownies, fays, pixies, leprawns', since the Eldar are 'of the world' and bound to it, wheras those others are beings from before the worlds making. In the later work there is no trace of any such explanation of the 'pixie' element in the worlds population: the Maiar are little referred to, and cetainly not said to include such beings as 'sing amid the grass at morning and chant among the standing corn at eve'.

Is it not possible that many of these spirits/sprites survived, who is The River Woman, are huorns mere tree sprites. When Gimli speaks of Caradhras he talks like it is an entity. If Osse and Uinen can affect their environs then surely other Maiar are lurking in the undergrowth doing the same thing. I believe that Tom is a surviving Sprite/Maiar of his little dale. I believe this because Tolkien was always re-using bits he had discarded, if we forget Tom Bombadil the character alltogether and just leave his circumstances and actions in, then the remainder leaves only one conclusion, he is not one of The Children of Iluvatar, he can only be what is left, a divine spirit.

[deagol]

When I think of Tom the one word that simply won't go away is "outside."

Outside, in its literal form, obviously. Tom is attuned to all things natural (that is, in nature) and to eschew the unnatural (manufactured), expressed primarily in the One Ring having no power over him. But more than that, I see Tom as "oustside" the entire tale. Tom is described (if I remember correctly) as always having been. Eternal, if you will. I think Tom is from somewhere else entirely and, perhaps, not of the music at all. I don't think we're meant to know -- as, apparently, no one in the tale itself seems to know -- where Tome came from or what he is about. He just is, and cannot be explained. I also liken this theory to what happens to me when I try to picture him in my mind. He's a timeless child, impossibly old and young at the same time. I can't explain it any better than that.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by deagol

When I think of Tom the one word that simply won't go away is "outside."

Outside, in its literal form, obviously. Tom is attuned to all things natural (that is, in nature) and to eschew the unnatural (manufactured), expressed primarily in the One Ring having no power over him. But more than that, I see Tom as "oustside" the entire tale. Tom is described (if I remember correctly) as always having been. Eternal, if you will. I think Tom is from somewhere else entirely and, perhaps, not of the music at all. I don't think we're meant to know -- as, apparently, no one in the tale itself seems to know -- where Tome came from or what he is about. He just is, and cannot be explained. I also liken this theory to what happens to me when I try to picture him in my mind. He's a timeless child, impossibly old and young at the same time. I can't explain it any better than that.

"Outside" is also the place Tom says the Dark Lord (Morgoth) originated from. I see this as the Void.
This is in line with what the Elves thought of Ungoliant:

The Eldar knew not whence she came; but some have said that in ages long before she descended from the darkness that lies about Arda, when Melkor first looked down in envy upon the Kingdom of Manwë.

Silmarillion Of the Darkening of Valinor

Tom said he "knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless--before the Dark Lord came from outside."

I think "outside" could well be the key, and I see a parallel between Tom and Ungoliant. In line with what narfforc said, both are creatures obviously not of the Children of Ilúvatar, seeming to each have their own desires apart from those of the "divine" in Arda, the Valar, their attendant Maia, and the rebels, Melkor and those who served him.

Perhaps Tom and Ungoliant were merely Ainu who came to Arda seperately from (and completely unknown to) the Valar, to either fulfill a part in the Music known only to the One, or to independantly pursue their own goals.

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by deagol

I don't think we're meant to know -- as, apparently, no one in the tale itself seems to know -- where Tome came from or what he is about. He just is, and cannot be explained.

Very true. I read somewhere (I think in one of the "Letters" that Tolkien INTENDED for Bombadil to be an enigma.

Originally Posted by deagol

I think Tom is from somewhere else entirely and, perhaps, not of the music at all.

I think you hit very close to the mark, maybe even in the gold.
Remember this quote from Silmarillion in "Ainulindale"

for to none but himself has Iluvatar revealed all that he has in store
and in every age there come forth things that are new and have no foretelling, for they do not proceed from the past.

I don't believe we need to (or even should try to) fit Bombadil into the list of created beings that are listed in Silmarillion (like Ainur, Maier, etc). Illuvatar is free to bring in other created beings - even some that may be unique.

Bombadil (and Goldberry, and the River Woman, for that matter) could easily be such. And, thus, all we do know of Bombadil is what is directly reported: that he was there when the Elves passed that way first, that no one knows where he came from, that the Ring has no power over him, etc.

[Lalaith]

For some reason, I imagine Tom Bombadil looking like Denholm Elliot in benign (Room with a View) mode (as opposed to sneery Private Function mode)