hin or chin?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hmph. Well, does anybody know what is ch pronounced in, let's say, Latin? Or if you know any other language where it is. Words that come from different languages, and having ch in them, are anyway pronounced differently in English... Like, chalcedone. It is not supposed to be really k. But quite close to it. Well, how do you pronounce for example Marach, anyway? That's what it is.

[Beregond]

It's not as simple as "Mare-ahk" with a hard K, is it? I picture the "ch" as having more (how can I explain?) character to it? I can hear it in my head but I can't pronounce it properly myself. I don't think it's a sound from English - more like German. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, the pronunciation guide in Children of Hurin says CH has the same value as Scottish loch or German buch.

[Galin]

It's like the sound in German Bach (as already noted).

CH is only used to represent the sound heard in bach (in German or Welsh), not that in English church. Except at the end of words and before t this sound, was weakened to h in the speech of Gondor, and that change has been recognized in a few names, such as Rohan, Rohirrim. (Imrahil is a Númenorean name.)

Return of the King, Appendix E

hên 'child' hîn 'children', but the plural article triggers a mutation here > i·Chîn 'the children'.

[Vaine]

Originally Posted by Beregond

Well, the pronunciation guide in Children of Hurin says CH has the same value as Scottish loch or German buch.

Only when 'ch' is at the end of a word I recon.

I am norwegian and can pretty much figure how chin i supposed to sound. ( As C is always pronounced K in norwegian, U is always 'OO' etc etc)

After all, Tolkien got alot of inspiration from scandinavian.

[Aganzir]

If it was supposed to pronounce as K, why didn't Christopher change it to Khîn instead of Hîn? C was always pronounced as K in Elvish, but ch was a phone of its own.

I remember reading somewhere that at the end of the word ch pronounces as in German, and at the beginning rather just as H.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Vaine

Only when 'ch' is at the end of a word I recon.

I would say Beregond's quote refers to all positions in Sindarin.

Also, JRRT notes that Rohan and Rohirrim represent Gondorian pronunciation. In Sindarin proper the words are Rochan(d) and Rochirrim for example (S. roch 'horse'). Gondorians weakened this sound to h in certain circumstances (as noted in Appendix E) and some altered word final ch to k (as noted in Unfinished Tales).

Some Gondorians said Rohan for S. Rochan and Ork for S. Orch.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

If it was supposed to pronounce as K, why didn't Christopher change it to Khîn instead of Hîn? C was always pronounced as K in Elvish, but ch was a phone of its own.

JRRT decided (while the LR was in galleys) not to use K in transliterating Elvish.* Latinate as he was, he assumed, optimistically, that readers would automatically understand that C is always 'hard.' He reserved K as a visual marker of non-Eldarin tongues: Khuzdul, Adunaic, Black Speech.

CT disagreed at the time (note that on The Map it was still "Kirith Ungol"), being perhaps more realistic, and years later in his own pronunciation guide emphasized "not Seleborn." But he wasn't going to violate the Rule.

*This rule didn't apply to certain names associated with the Valar: Tulkas, Melkor. This internally Tolkien explained (very late) as being because these names weren't Eldarin, but Elvish approximations of Valarin (tho' there's no justification in tengwar for the distinction!)- but externally, of course, because these early names belong to the foundational, Finnish-based layer, K being common in Finnish.