Tom Bombadil

[Vaine]

Originally Posted by Benjimir

It would seem so, and naturally one wants to ask what his purpose is, if any. Or maybe he is divine whimsy.

There's always the chance that he was just used as a way of divine intervention, but I doubth it. I dont know, but when I read the part about Tom I always get the feeling that he is timeless, immortal and divine, kinda like Eru himself. Maybe he is Eru in physical form, inhabiting the old forest of middle earth, watching as each age slowly passes by and keeping himself amused by His Children's wars and struggles :P (after all he never participated himself in the war against Melkor!)

[Benjimir]

To which I then wonder, who or what is Goldberry?

[Laurinquë]

Originally Posted by Vaine

There's always the chance that he was just used as a way of divine intervention, but I doubth it. I dont know, but when I read the part about Tom I always get the feeling that he is timeless, immortal and divine, kinda like Eru himself. Maybe he is Eru in physical form, inhabiting the old forest of middle earth, watching as each age slowly passes by and keeping himself amused by His Children's wars and struggles :P (after all he never participated himself in the war against Melkor!)

That's what my mother thinks (er, sorry to bring my mum into this...), and I must say that the same idea occurred to me as well. Goldberry herself described Tom Bombadil as being 'the master', whatever that implies.

I'm not saying this theory is likely, but Tom just strikes me as being of divine origin, though I could not say how. He's among my very favourite characters; right up there with Sam and Old Man Willow ironically.

In my mind, Tom Bombadil was much as he is described in the book, though perhaps more drab in his clothing choices.

[Leyrana Silumiel]

Originally Posted by Vaine

Maybe he is Eru in physical form...

I don't have the book handy, but in Letters, Tolkien says that Tom Bombadil is NOT Eru.

[Vaine]

Originally Posted by Leyrana Silumiel

I don't have the book handy, but in Letters, Tolkien says that Tom Bombadil is NOT Eru.

I need to aquire that book it seems.

Atleast I think we could all agree, that Tom i divine in one way or the other.

Edit: I was thinking something along the line of Mother and Father Earth.

[Benjimir]

I was always amused and felt it was telling the way Tom coyly puts on The Ring. Utterly unaffected by it. You get the sense he is beyond the world he is living in. A visitor, observer, basically a level well beyond Middle-Earth. The Elves, Gandolf, even the fell powers simply know not to bother or bother with him.

He is a reminder, in the middle of the grim real world, that there is a broader context everything is taking place in.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Why does this discussion feel so familiar...?

Well, I know this is probably the umpteenth time in the last forty-odd years since I first read LotR that I've been involved in such a discourse. A while back, there was a similar one here on the Downs: What connection between Goldberry and Ulmo? It started with that question, but eventually went into the nature and origins of Bombadil as well. Might be of interest.

For myself, I've long believed he was a Maia, probably one of Yavanna's, who came into ME before the awakening of the Elves, and, rather like Aiwendil/Radagast, became so enamored of the land, he stayed and lost his connections to the other Ainur.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

Why does this discussion feel so familiar...?

Well, I know this is probably the umpteenth time in the last forty-odd years since I first read LotR that I've been involved in such a discourse. A while back, there was a similar one here on the Downs: What connection between Goldberry and Ulmo? It started with that question, but eventually went into the nature and origins of Bombadil as well. Might be of interest.

For myself, I've long believed he was a Maia, probably one of Yavanna's, who came into ME before the awakening of the Elves, and, rather like Aiwendil/Radagast, became so enamored of the land, he stayed and lost his connections to the other Ainur.

Like Balrog wings, the incarnations of Bombadil and Goldberry have been discussed ad nauseum, and the thread Ibrini cites belabors the point until the dead horse had been beaten into microscopic equine subparticles.

Be that as it may, I of course disagree with Ibrin's take on Bombadil and Goldberry's Maiaric nature. They are completely set apart from the story, as Tolkien says 'an enigma'. They have no real connection with the story other than Tolkien wanted them there, having transported them to Middle-earth from poems written long before LotR was written.

I refer you back to the other thread for the appropriate documentation.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Be that as it may, I of course disagree with Ibrin's take on Bombadil and Goldberry's Maiaric nature. They are completely set apart from the story, as Tolkien says 'an enigma'. They have no real connection with the story other than Tolkien wanted them there, having transported them to Middle-earth from poems written long before LotR was written.

Speaking from a viewpoint outside the story, I don't disagree with that. Bombadil and many other things in LotR are clearly holdovers or "translations" of things that Tolkien had imagined for other purposes and tales, and they migrated into what at the time was his most publishable work. However, from a viewpoint within the world of the story itself, Tom had to come from somewhere that is consistent with the rest of the subcreational reality. There are other oddities, to be sure (like Beorn and the giants), but none with the kind of power Tom manifests. Perhaps Eru put him there to be a puzzle to the inhabitants of ME as well, but I still like the Maia theory (which, of course, is just a theory).

[Eönwë]

Well, I don't think that Tom Bombadil is a Maia. He seems to earthy and real for that. I would say that he is sort of the opposite of Ungoliant (who I don't think is a Maia either, especially after reading the BoLT). I know I've said this before, but I felt like I had to represent my opinions.

Everyone who's read the books has come up with this question and answers it for themselves. There are so many theories: Is he an elf? Is he a Maia? Is he a Vala? Is he Tolkien himself?

The debate goes ever on and on, down from book where it began...