The Middle Earth Popularity Cup - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Nogrod · 12-20-2008, 12:36 PM

*Yawns*

Andsigil · 12-20-2008, 01:14 PM

I'm going to fall on my sword here and side with Aganzir.

++Boromir

the phantom · 12-20-2008, 01:43 PM

So, you're going to vote off the most rational person in the books, huh?

Let's examine Gandalf's Ring plot.

Frodo barely even made it out of the Shire. He had quite a bit of luck helping him out. And luck again in the Old Forest. And again at Bree. And let's not even talk about when he was captured passing into Mordor. An entire fortress kills its own population?! I mean- honestly! The Cirith Ungol incident was ridiculous luck. And then again he and Sam get herded into a pack of Orcs, and they aren't recognized, and even escape?

And then of course when it came down to it Frodo failed. He couldn't throw the Ring into the fire. Hardly a surprise since Gandalf had witnessed first-hand at the beginning of the book that Frodo was not capable of risking harm to the Ring (the cooking fire, remember, Frodo couldn't throw it into his own cooking fire for Eru's sake!).

What I'm saying is, Gandalf chose a path that was guaranteed to fail! I find it silly that he is actually rewarded for his silly decision, and people think he was somehow more wise than Boromir because he chose the path of suicide.

Boromir's reaction was much smarter. Gandalf acted like it was a given that the Ring would corrupt the user. How did he know that? Where was the scientific proof? Yeah, sure, we know from the author telling us, but the characters in the story knew nothing about that. They didn't have access to Tolkien's writings. Given the knowledge that they did possess, it was rather wrong of them to state that the Ring would for sure corrupt the wielder, as if it was some sort of proven fact.

It wasn't.

From the perspective of the reader, Boromir's choice was wrong, because we can see everything. But please remember, the characters within the book were not omniscient. They had limited knowledge. And given what they did know, Gandalf's Ring decision was absolutely dumb, and Boromir's was sensible.

Try putting yourself within the story for once. Then you will see people for what they really are.

++ Boromir

PS I forgot my most important point. Aganzir wants a Boromir victory for her birthday. That ought to be enough for anyone.

skip spence · 12-20-2008, 02:01 PM

^What he said (that was awesome The Phantom!).

++Boromir

This ain't over folks! You don't want to ruin the lovely Aganzir's birthday, do you? Pm all your friends and ask for their support. If that ain't enough, sign in with alternate log-in names and vote Boro.

That last part is a joke by the way. Or is it? *shifty eyes*.

Aganzir · 12-20-2008, 02:36 PM

Finally some gentlemen!

Legate of Amon Lanc · 12-20-2008, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the phantom

From the perspective of the reader, Boromir's choice was wrong, because we can see everything. But please remember, the characters within the book were not omniscient. They had limited knowledge. And given what they did know, Gandalf's Ring decision was absolutely dumb, and Boromir's was sensible.

Well, I always thought it is obvious that Boromir's choice was the one most of people would choose. Because it makes sense and has more chance of succeeding. That's the whole point of LotR, so you are not saying anything new (and I think it was not even the point anyway). But who made what choices plays no part in picking a character to vote for. I like Boromir, but not as much as Gandalf (and not because of how "right" their choices were). Simple as that.

++Gandalf

And I would second Nogrod. Well, we picked it ourselves.

Shastanis Althreduin · 12-20-2008, 03:19 PM

++Lynch Boromir88

....Oh, wait....

Darn. Guess I have to rephrase.

++Boromir

Purely because it's Agan's birthday coming up.

Lynch him! He's a wolf I tell you!

Mithalwen · 12-20-2008, 03:40 PM

LOL Shasta ... such is the power of the Downs that I tend to think of our Boro first... but book Boromir is one of Tolkien's more interesting and complex characters and one that is appealing for those of us who are also fallible mortals.

++Boromir

mormegil · 12-20-2008, 04:50 PM

++Gandalf

I didn't want to pull out the heavy ammo but you've forced my hand. I know from direct experience that Boromir has a bed-wetting problem. Popular kids never have that, ergo how can he be the most popular?

12-20-2008, 12:36 PM	#1
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	Yawns __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

12-20-2008, 01:14 PM	#2
Andsigil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The Deepest Forges of Ered Luin Posts: 733	I'm going to fall on my sword here and side with Aganzir. ++Boromir __________________ Even as fog continues to lie in the valleys, so does ancient sin cling to the low places, the depression in the world consciousness.

12-20-2008, 01:43 PM	#3
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	So, you're going to vote off the most rational person in the books, huh? Let's examine Gandalf's Ring plot. Frodo barely even made it out of the Shire. He had quite a bit of luck helping him out. And luck again in the Old Forest. And again at Bree. And let's not even talk about when he was captured passing into Mordor. An entire fortress kills its own population?! I mean- honestly! The Cirith Ungol incident was ridiculous luck. And then again he and Sam get herded into a pack of Orcs, and they aren't recognized, and even escape? And then of course when it came down to it Frodo failed. He couldn't throw the Ring into the fire. Hardly a surprise since Gandalf had witnessed first-hand at the beginning of the book that Frodo was not capable of risking harm to the Ring (the cooking fire, remember, Frodo couldn't throw it into his own cooking fire for Eru's sake!). What I'm saying is, Gandalf chose a path that was guaranteed to fail! I find it silly that he is actually rewarded for his silly decision, and people think he was somehow more wise than Boromir because he chose the path of suicide. Boromir's reaction was much smarter. Gandalf acted like it was a given that the Ring would corrupt the user. How did he know that? Where was the scientific proof? Yeah, sure, we know from the author telling us, but the characters in the story knew nothing about that. They didn't have access to Tolkien's writings. Given the knowledge that they did possess, it was rather wrong of them to state that the Ring would for sure corrupt the wielder, as if it was some sort of proven fact. It wasn't. From the perspective of the reader, Boromir's choice was wrong, because we can see everything. But please remember, the characters within the book were not omniscient. They had limited knowledge. And given what they did know, Gandalf's Ring decision was absolutely dumb, and Boromir's was sensible. Try putting yourself within the story for once. Then you will see people for what they really are. ++ Boromir PS I forgot my most important point. Aganzir wants a Boromir victory for her birthday. That ought to be enough for anyone. __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.

12-20-2008, 02:01 PM	#4
skip spence shadow of a doubt Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Back on the streets Posts: 1,125	^What he said (that was awesome The Phantom!). ++Boromir This ain't over folks! You don't want to ruin the lovely Aganzir's birthday, do you? Pm all your friends and ask for their support. If that ain't enough, sign in with alternate log-in names and vote Boro. That last part is a joke by the way. Or is it? shifty eyes. __________________ "You can always come back, but you can't come back all the way" ~ Bob Dylan

12-20-2008, 02:36 PM	#5
Aganzir Woman of Secret Shadow Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells Posts: 4,511	Finally some gentlemen! __________________ He bit me, and I was not gentle.

12-20-2008, 03:19 PM	#7
Shastanis Althreduin Werewolf Psychic Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: In fire, water, earth, and air. But mostly water. Posts: 2,832	++Lynch Boromir88 ....Oh, wait.... Darn. Guess I have to rephrase. ++Boromir Purely because it's Agan's birthday coming up. Lynch him! He's a wolf I tell you! __________________ Shasta– ... However, if he's innocent his famous clairvoyant powers must be taking the week off. Meanwhile, the Night-kills have been awfully effective– almost like we're dealing with a psychic wolf... - Nerwen, WW LXXV

12-20-2008, 03:40 PM	#8
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,463	LOL Shasta ... such is the power of the Downs that I tend to think of our Boro first... but book Boromir is one of Tolkien's more interesting and complex characters and one that is appealing for those of us who are also fallible mortals. ++Boromir __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

12-20-2008, 04:50 PM	#9
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	++Gandalf I didn't want to pull out the heavy ammo but you've forced my hand. I know from direct experience that Boromir has a bed-wetting problem. Popular kids never have that, ergo how can he be the most popular? __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

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