The Middle Earth Popularity Cup

[Andsigil]

While I enjoyed reading Groin's thoughts on how Frodo became the epitome of mercy, I have mixed feelings on that sort of blanket pacifism. It's easy to show Frodo in a noble light for acting this way because, after all, he was the central character and Tolkien crafted the story the way he wanted. However, in real life, the luxury of embracing pacifism generally only works when it's done from behind the safety of a bulwark, which says something poignantly ironic about the nature of pacifism, itself.

I've also found through the years, both in real life and in studying history (at university and subsequently) that the old adage of "Mercy to the wolf is cruelty to the sheep" has a lot of truth in it. I suppose it depends on what you consider to be a wolf. My threshold for wolflike behavior is pretty low.

In any event, I choose ++Beleg

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Andsigil

While I enjoyed reading Groin's thoughts on how Frodo became the epitome of mercy, I have mixed feelings on that sort of blanket pacifism. It's easy to show Frodo in a noble light for acting this way because, after all, he was the central character and Tolkien crafted the story the way he wanted. However, in real life, the luxury of embracing pacifism generally only works when it's done from behind the safety of a bulwark, which says something poignantly ironic about the nature of pacifism, itself.

No, no, no, I should have specified clearer. Frodo wasn't a pacifist, I just said how he nearly was one with how merciful and gracious he was. He certainly didn't appose the Hobbits to fight for their home, as a pacifist would have done. Frodo wasn't afraid to fight for what was good and just but it wasn't the first thing that entered his mind. What I was referring to, when I mentioned Frodo almost being pacifist, is his handling of Saruman at the end. Saruman even jumped at Frodo with a knife and stabbed him but Frodo still let him go, he might have been overly merciful but I think that he showed wisdom at the same time.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Andsigil

While I enjoyed reading Groin's thoughts on how Frodo became the epitome of mercy, I have mixed feelings on that sort of blanket pacifism. It's easy to show Frodo in a noble light for acting this way because, after all, he was the central character and Tolkien crafted the story the way he wanted. However, in real life, the luxury of embracing pacifism generally only works when it's done from behind the safety of a bulwark, which says something poignantly ironic about the nature of pacifism, itself.

I've also found through the years, both in real life and in studying history (at university and subsequently) that the old adage of "Mercy to the wolf is cruelty to the sheep" has a lot of truth in it. I suppose it depends on what you consider to be a wolf. My threshold for wolflike behavior is pretty low.

Standing watching when let's say somebody attacks your friend, such kind of pacifism will be surely immoral. But have you for example read anything about Mahatma Gandhi? He was just a man like everybody else, but his concepts of non-aggression I find actually pretty nice, and he proved them himself with quite good outcome several times...

[Nogrod]

I'm afraid Frodo will just walk away with victory from this so I have to try and help the other side. I've nothing against Frodo, quite on the contrary, but we need some believable opposition in the form of votes to make this more interesting.

++ Beleg

Now I just have to come up with a reason...

Well, Beleg is just cool, a Hero (with a capital H) and I really admired him when I read the Silm the first time.

Then again the parts with Frodo and Sam wandering together in the LotR were the most boring pages in the book when I was younger - I was indeed always hoping the prof would have done away with them and the story would have gotten back to where the war was brewed and fought, where the pawns moved on the board, where the politics were gambled and wider views showed.

So let's say this is Nogrod, aged 14, voting here...

[Morthoron]

++Frodo.

He is a more complete character than Beleg, who seems rather flat and one-dimensional.

[Gollum the Great]

++Beleg Cuthalion

Because he's awesome. And he's a friend (something we need more of...).

[Strongbow]

++Beleg

Come now. With my username, you think I could go any other way?

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

++Frodo

To me, there is little bravery shown in Tolkien's works as great as Frodo's acceptance of the burden of the Ring, especially after listening to all that was said about it at the Council of Elrond.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

To me, there is little bravery shown in Tolkien's works as great as Frodo's acceptance of the burden of the Ring, especially after listening to all that was said about it at the Council of Elrond.

He was a bigger glory hog than Boromir but since he was so diminuative in stature nobody suspected it. He's really a tyrant.

[Ilya]

++Frodo

Yes, Beleg is great. Yes, Frodo is nothing without Sam. But he's a far better developed character, and his failure at the test is what makes his sacrifice all the more meaningful.

[skip spence]

The second round offered plenty of good and even matches but few surprises. The biggest upset was without a doubt the demise of Frodo Baggins himself, at the hands of the relatively obscure Beleg Strongbow.

A few statistics so far:

Gandalf has received 24 votes so far in total which is 5 more than Galadriel who comes second.

In matches between a character born in the first age and a character born in the third age, the first age player has come out on top 75 % of the times.

Three of the nine members of the fellowship is still in the running. Five character are representing the Silmarillion while four are representing The Lord Of The Rings.

Odds from Betberry:
17/6 Gandalf; 5/1 Sam; 7/1 Boromir; 12/1 Túrin; 15/1 Maedhros, Galadriel; 50/1 Sauron; 100/1 Beleg

The quarter finals:

Beleg Strongbow (8) - Sauron (6)
Maedhros (6) - Boromir (8)

Gandalf (7) - Galadriel (6)
Samwise (6) - Túrin (10)

[skip spence]

Quarter Final 1:

In arguably the weakest 1/8 final, Beleg, who sensationally knocked out Frodo in the second round, faces Sauron, who has plenty of support on this board, probably more for his entertaining werewolf isle than for his evil schemes for world domination.

Beleg vs. Sauron:

[mormegil]

++Beleg

I vacationed with him once and he was a great chap!

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So Beleg overtook Frodo Baggins himself!

Don't look so surprised, Nogrod. Looking back, this was the deciding moment of that match (remember Frodo won by one measly vote):

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I'm afraid Frodo will just walk away with victory from this so I have to try and help the other side. I've nothing against Frodo, quite on the contrary, but we need some believable opposition in the form of votes to make this more interesting.

++ Beleg

Now I just have to come up with a reason...

Poor Frodo... He will be looking at you when he goes home, and there will be tears in his blue puppy eyes.

[Ilya]

Mmm. No question. ++Maedhros.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

+ + Maedros

But he should have listened to his brother (Maglor).

[Gollum the Great]

Where are the dragon-lovers?

++Glaurung

Father of Dragons.

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Standing watching when let's say somebody attacks your friend, such kind of pacifism will be surely immoral. But have you for example read anything about Mahatma Gandhi? He was just a man like everybody else, but his concepts of non-aggression I find actually pretty nice, and he proved them himself with quite good outcome several times...

Oh, yes, I have read plenty about him. But note that I did say "generally". Historically, Gandhi was rather the exception.