Werewolf LIII: The Republic

[the phantom]

Nogrod- that was a long post, and I can't really find the point of it. Well no- I can find the point that you are attempting to make, but I'm not sure how any of it applies to anything that's been said.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

You know tp that none of these have nothing to do with "clear thinking" you're calling after or are in no way discernible to anyone outside your own head. You call for people to trust you with these!

You said this in reference to some quotes that I made, and I'm not sure how it applies. Let's list these quotes and go through them one by one.

Originally Posted by me

I did express surprise that I was being suspected apparently because I was actively trying to achieve something.

In this quote I was responding to Brin after she gave a mock quote from Boro and I painting us as very arrogant and mean and insulting to others. In my response, I am telling her what the feeling was behind any statement that I had made, and making it clear that it was not mean-spirited.

So I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to prove with that quote.

Originally Posted by me

Well if we're telling the truth, then it's true, isn't it?

In this quote, I am logically pointing out that what she has said about us would be perfectly true if we were innocent, and thus it didn't seem correct that it would be brought up as a point against us.

Once again, I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to prove with that quote. It seems pretty logical to me.

And the final quote-

Originally Posted by me

And the reason we discussed the ploy with each other was simply to see if we were on the same page. Building trust! You people wonder why we're trusting each other? Um, maybe because we're doing things to build trust.

Once again, this quote is fairly straightforward. Brin said that Boro and I should never have brought up the ploy. I respond, giving her the reason that we did discuss it- to build further trust. A logical answer to the question, is it not?

So, seeing as all three quotes you gave were perfectly sensible and addressed specific points in the posts of others, I can hardly see how anything negative can be attributed to them. You say they were low quality, but I fail to see the reasoning. And has not the logic of a great many of my answers today showed quite clearly that those that suspect me have huge gaping holes in their arguments? Far worse than any you've shown in mine.

And I notice that you have not commented whatsoever on some of my extremely sensible posts. I even laid out your "chess match" for you, and asked your opinion, but you ignored it.

It seems to me that you are reading only what you wish and grasping desperately at straws. I am not the one who is "not delivering".

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And your trust may be statistically believable as you say, but if you two are trying to build trust how come you make arguments on statistical probabilities. Isn't trust just the opposite of statistics?

You know good and well that the statistics have nothing to do with our trust. I've only brought up statistics in order to logically demonstrate to others why they shouldn't be so hasty to assign Wolfishness to our trust.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

So I've been asking myself, "Is there anything wrong with wanting to affect the wolves' kill?"

Answer: no.

Only problem is, the wolves aren't going to kill a wolf. In a game with one team, an innocent is going to die at night.

So, assuming Phantom and Boro are innocent (which I'm still not ready to admit to)....

I suppose, from the point of logic, it was a sound plan. I still don't think it was at all fair to Agan (and Boro, seeing as how you were one of the people who made it happen, it's probably not your place to say "Oh, Agan's fine with it, in fact she's honored" when she's probably rolling in her grave right now), but I can't find anything wrong with it from a factual, coldly logical standpoint.

I'm a very sympathetic WW player, though (much like Rikae seems to be), so I'm still mad about it.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Shasta

intentional killing of an innocent is not thereof the action of an innocent.

You're missing the point, buddy.

An innocent is going to die. Every Night. It's a guarantee. There's no way to stop it from happening.

The best an Ordo can do is try and keep the WWs from making the best possible kill.

EDIT: It's not nice. I'm not saying that. I feel bad about it. But sacrifices must be made. And I don't think there's any way we're going to kill the Werewolves with kindness.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Nogrod- that was a long post, and I can't really find the point of it. Well no- I can find the point that you are attempting to make, but I'm not sure how any of it applies to anything that's been said.

I understood part of his point to be that if the village finds you suspicious, then you're doing something suspicious - protests and ploys notwithstanding. You have a responsibility to play in a way that conforms to the system of popular suspicion that rules Ww, so if you are attracting too much attention, then either change or defend yourself just like all the other players. Don't ask players to take your innocence for granted.

I hope I am not misrepresenting you, Nogrod.

For the record, everyone, I myself do not yet have a position on the phantom-Boro thing. I'm just trying to help keep the discussion going for now.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Gwath

so if you are attracting too much attention, then either change or defend yourself just like all the other players.

1) The attention I am getting is likely Wolf-driven, and you cannot defend against those who do not wish to be swayed. (though that could be said of some Ordos as well)

2) I have defended myself. Quite nicely. I've given perfectly logical explanations for every behavior in question. Any honest reason for suspicion that anyone has been able to come up with has been addressed. But the same points just get raised again, as if I never answered.

Originally Posted by Gwath

I'm just trying to help keep the discussion going for now.

That's part of the whole problem, though.

If people would just go back with an open mind and read one after the other each of my posts this day, this discussion would not have to continue, with the same points repeated again and again.

If I continue being a distraction, it is no fault of my own. There are four people who wish me to be a continued distraction, and they are the ones driving this, and unfortunately they are managing to tug others along for the ride.