Tol-in-Gaurhoth LII: Star Crossed II: Together for Eternity

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Gollum

I am slightly wary (but not suspicious) of Rikae (her reasons for mistrusting Mac didn't have much by way of a foundation), Aganzir (too excited), Lommy (she always bears watching, but I have little say beyond that).

You have to understand the way I am, mein Herr
A tiger is a tiger, not a lamb, mein Herr

Gollum, do elaborate to me how I am too excited.
Someone said on day 1 that I seemed jumpy and then you just came and repeated it. When I asked for reasons, you listed everything I had done by then; speaks much, accuses people &c...
And now, no real suspects, but you're slightly wary of people for poor reasons. Although I find Rikae suspicious myself, I think her reasons for mistrusting Mac were good enough. Besides just a moment earlier you had said you didn't understand why she was voted.
I myself can't see me as too excited. You, of course, have never played with me and don't know how I am, and therefore you should have no way of knowing if I'm excited or not. Was that the best you could come up with? Even if the person you were referring to as too excited was my top suspect, it wouldn't add anything to my suspicions of her. Sorry if I sound aggressive but that's the most stupid reason I have ever been suspected with.
Also you're wary of Lommy because she always bears watching?
It looks like you were just trying to go with the flow and pick up people you thought could be suspected later on. With weak grounds.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Agan's threat to go along, without an actual vote, looks perhaps worse. (It seems she's trying to keep things moving in that direction while avoiding any commitment herself).

It was not a threat, I was thinking aloud. I thought I said I'd prefer voting Mac but I could vote for you, too, since you already had votes so there would even be a chance I could contribute to the lynching of one of my main suspects although I had to vote so early. I changed my mind several times while time passed, but for the life in me I just can't see what's so suspicious in telling who I could possibly vote.

Originally Posted by Rikae

And, Agan, what "points"?

Hmm, I see that in the process of writing my thoughts down, they were reduced only to the following. In my opinion they were still a valid enough reason for suspicion, though.

However, Rikae's certainty that Mac has a role because she hasn't is strange. The point that Di wouldn't make them both ordos is just bad. There's a certain likelihood that two good players get a special role, but there are many others than Mac and Rikae as well - and who knows if the roles were selected randomly? In any case, it definitely isn't a point I would use against somebody, and to me it seems Rikae should know better, too. I don't find it that surprising that Lommy thought her accusations of Mac were a joke.

Originally Posted by Shasta

This kind of screams baddie to me, to be honest. :/

Then get earplugs.

Originally Posted by Rikae

About the point #2 - half serious. It is something that I thought about (not because of our strength as players, but because mods seems to love setting us against each other), but I didn't expect anyone else to take it seriously - except possibly Mac himself: I was interested in his reaction.

I am definitely not the best person to complain about half serious suspicions. Still, it would be so easy for a wolf to throw around random suspicion, get a great many different reactions from people and then say she was just testing the ice. "I didn't except anyone else to take it seriously" is in itself a veiled accusation against people who actually did.

Originally Posted by sally

A couple votes that bother me.

Gwath-->Fea. His reason is listed "because I disagree with her about Mac". Seriously? You don't agree with her so she's a wolf? Seems like fuzzy (aka furry) logic to me.

Rikae-->Agan. Just because it's spreading out the votes even more, and especially this close to the deadline. Trying to complicate things even more right before Sunset is just not cool, my dear.

It somewhat bothers me that those votes bother you. Of course I don't like being voted, especially if I'm not around to defend myself (not that Rikae or Shasta had any accusations against which I should have defended myself at that point, though), but (and I might be in the minority in this one, also) I think everybody should vote the person they suspect the most, no matter if it's close to the deadline or spreads out the votes. From Gwath I want to see more before judging him.

As for the kills, there's one thing I found worth noticing - they both were killed the same way (stabbed through the heart). I don't know if there's a team or if both/all pairs just decided to kill their victims like that, and I'm not going to speculate on it today, either. I just felt the need to point it out.

I wouldn't find it surprising if Legate was killed because of being suspected to be a lover. However, since we don't know how the killers work, I think we should be traditional and concentrate more on what the dead said than what they were possibly thought to be.

By the way, I always suspect Mac and Rikae. Always.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

*yawns*
...need coffee...

I wanted to stick my head in and say the following about In Game:

"While we don't know anything for certain, last night was highly beneficial in that some things are at least partially revealed to us which weren't before. For the number-of-Lover-pairs question, I'm willing to assume two pairs due simply to the low odds of multiple baddies picking the same kill on a Night One out of an almost full village."

and
more importantly, Out of Game:

"My Wednesdays have turned into a joke so you're unlikely to see me for the next twelve hours since I barely have time to eat much less play online. Do yourselves a favor and don't kill me while I'm gone."

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

*yawns*
...need coffee...

I wanted to stick my head in and say the following about In Game:

"While we don't know anything for certain, last night was highly beneficial in that some things are at least partially revealed to us which weren't before. For the number-of-Lover-pairs question, I'm willing to assume two pairs due simply to the low odds of multiple baddies picking the same kill on a Night One out of an almost full village."

and
more importantly, Out of Game:

"My Wednesdays have turned into a joke so you're unlikely to see me for the next twelve hours since I barely have time to eat much less play online. Do yourselves a favor and don't kill me while I'm gone."

*seconds the yawning* You know, I love college, I really do. It's just the classes and assignments that I hate.



From Agan's last post, because it caught my eye. (How sad is it that I just scanned through for now and caught bits where people were talking to me. Heh I'll go back and look at everything again later.) I'm glad you don't mind getting voted, dearie -I'll remember it closer to deadline - but it just struck me as odd not that the votes came that close to deadline, but that they introduced new candidates so close to deadline. Mostly it's the fact that it could have easily turned into a last-minute bandwagon and I hate those (for the most part). I'm sorry, I should have made that a bit more clear.


Anyway, final touches on paper. Not a morning person, me. Blah.


P.S. Oh, the theory that maybe Legate was killed because someone thought he was a lover? Very possible. The gifted theory's plausible too. I would think, though, that lovers (if there are more than one team) would want to get rid of their competition first (because then they'd be safe during the Nights) but at the same time I know that -hypothetically, o'course- if I was a wolf I would almost rather get rid of a seer than a fellow baddie. I don't know. I'm going to stop babbling. Sorry.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I'm glad you don't mind getting voted, dearie -I'll remember it closer to deadline - but it just struck me as odd not that the votes came that close to deadline, but that they introduced new candidates so close to deadline. Mostly it's the fact that it could have easily turned into a last-minute bandwagon and I hate those (for the most part). I'm sorry, I should have made that a bit more clear.

Hey, I said I don't like being voted (but bringing in a new candidate close to deadline is not something I find particularly suspicious)! If it had turned into a last-minute bandwagon, I'd be dead and proven innocent now and you'd at least have something to analyse. Annoying as they might be, I refuse to believe nothing can be found out of them. Besides, what's really the difference between a bandwagon and a last-minute bandwagon? That the votee is not necessarily around.

Originally Posted by sally

I know that -hypothetically, o'course- if I was a wolf I would almost rather get rid of a seer than a fellow baddie. I don't know. I'm going to stop babbling. Sorry.

Well I don't know. If the seer dreams of you, you might still have a plenty of time to kill her since she probably doesn't come out after finding just one baddie. However, if another team chooses to kill you, you're dead that very night. If I was a baddie, I'd much rather get rid of the other baddies before throwing wild guesses about who the seer could be.

I'm getting a bad feeling of sally. The way she reacted to Gwath & Rikae's votes looks somehow so opportunistic. They were after all quite petty things, and somehow she seems to try to make them look bigger than they really are.

[Gwathagor]

Good morning, I am awake, but I don't have time to post right now. I'll be back in a few hours.

[Kitanna]

So Lalaith and Lommy? Lalaith seems pretty obvious given her quietness. Legate though I believe, as others do, that he may have been believed to be another lover.

I'd like to look at Lommy voters, but by the time I'm able to get back on I'm sure it'll have been done many times. But I do have a whole list of people and things I want to look at so hopefully it won't all be covered later. It'll be at least nine hours before I'm able to get back on unless I can steal a laptop at some point.

[Aganzir]

Lalaith plays so seldom that it would be quite evil to pick her as a random kill (which doesn't mean it couldn't have happened, though. It just seems more likely that there's some actual reason).

Her opinions on people from yesterday:
Innocentish: Nog, Mac, Brinn, and Eomer.
Didn't know what to think of: Gollum, Kitanna, and Greenie.
Didn't know what to think of, but bear watching: Lommy, Fea (the most suspicious of them, got even more slightly suspicious of her later on), and Rikae.
Weird: Legate.
Feels uncomfortable about: Groin (semi-analysis of a handful of players), sally (not sincere-looking), Eönwë (not sincere-looking).
Also wonders if I want to get lynched or dreamed of for some purpose of my own (no, I don't).

Then there are her last two posts which I rather quote here (only the important parts, though) than try to sum up.

Originally Posted by Lal

I want to know what Legate's up to, his posts feel so odd, they aren't making sense to me at all. I also want to know what Agan is up to and I am getting more worried about Fea.
Then there are Groin and Sally, who worried me earlier. (Eonwe too, although he is now worrying me less.)

Originally Posted by Lal

All right, to be clearer: my suspicions are often directed at those who I feel are being confusing, possibly deliberately so, and for a purpose. Is that better?

Now I don't know what to make of her attitude towards Legate. Was he attempted to frame (which failed when he got killed, too), is it a coincidence that they both were killed, do the baddies have a team? Dunno. It's also possible that whoever killed her wanted it to make look bad on me, but I find it less likely since to me it looks more like she was just curious of me rather than actually suspicious. It could also point at either Fea being a baddie and/or someone trying to frame her. Or Groin and sally, maybe even Eönwë. At least to me it isn't that difficult to think so since I suspect them all (with the exception of Eönwë) more or less. But still, you can never know if someone's death points at someone's guilt or a framing attempt.

I skimmed through Lal's posts but couldn't see anything that might have been interpreted as giftedness or evil intents. However, if she got something right, she might have been killed preventively - just in case she was the seer.

I wonder why I do this so often although it never helps me to find reasons why somebody could have been killed. However, I'm going to keep my eye on Fea, Groin and sally anyway.

By the way, just a thought - in a village of 19, how likely is it that there are four baddies, especially as it's possible to kill two for the price of one?

I can say it straight that although I have the energy to post much, I don't have the energy to go through Legate's posts and analyse the causes of his death. That's what one gets for being a flood-poster.

Okay I'm probably off for a while now.