The Straight Road

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Interesting post as usual, Ibrin. I have not read Tolkien's letters (I know, I know... ) and am just speculating about what makes sense to me. Whether the logic works, etc.

On that note, why bother with the curve? If the blessed realm was to become another plane or dimension, whatever you want to call it, why not just make it so where it stood? Surely it wouldn't matter to everyone else where it stood in their plane. They couldn't reach it anyway.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

On that note, why bother with the curve? If the blessed realm was to become another plane or dimension, whatever you want to call it, why not just make it so where it stood? Surely it wouldn't matter to everyone else where it stood in their plane. They couldn't reach it anyway.

Good question, and I surely don't know why. It's just the way Tolkien describes it. Perhaps he intended them to teleport to another planet rather than achieve interdimensional transit, and that's what happens at the moment the ship vanishes. He never does say. But what he does indicate it that they are leaving the world of Arda, for good, and going to another. There is no way back, except for the Ainur, because they can move disembodied. For the Istari to make the trip in real bodies represented one of the "exceptions" that Tolkien does admit pop up in these kinds of stories, and that particular exception was done with the approval of Eru. Having the ship leave the curvature of the Earth might have been a way of making the physical departure from Arda a real moment of detachment.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

Good question, and I surely don't know why. It's just the way Tolkien describes it. Perhaps he intended them to teleport to another planet rather than achieve interdimensional transit, and that's what happens at the moment the ship vanishes.

Which would explain why Vulcans have leaf-shaped ears. Spock is a Noldor!

[Guinevere]

Well, the closest description of the Straight Road is at the end of the Akallabeth:

Therefore the loremasters of Men said that a Straight Road must still be, for those that were permitted to find it. And they taught that, while the new world fell away, the old road and the path of the memory of the West still went on, as it were a mighty bridge invisible that passed through the air of breath and of flight (which were bent now as the world was bent), and traversed Ilmen which flesh unaided cannot endure, until it came to Tol Eressëa, the Lonely Isle, and maybe even beyond, to Valinor, where the Valar still dwell and watch the unfolding of the story of the world. And tales and rumours arose along the shores of the sea concerning mariners and men forlorn upon the water who, by some fate or grace or favour of the Valar, had entered in upon the Straight Way and seen the face of the world sink below them, and so had come to the lamplit quays of Avallónë, or verily to the last beaches on the margin of Aman, and there had looked upon the White Mountain, dreadful and beautiful, before they died.

But, as Ibrin mentions, these tales are told by humans who "never made the trip".
I think it's meant to be a mystery, intriguing and fascinating just because it can't be exactly explained.

[Eönwë]

How about a wormhole to some other planet somewhere in the universe?


edit: I actually quite like this idea- I'll go into it sometime.

[Lalwendë]

Cheers, Guin, saved me a job there as I wanted to talk about that quote

Therefore the loremasters of Men said that a Straight Road must still be, for those that were permitted to find it. And they taught that, while the new world fell away, the old road and the path of the memory of the West still went on, as it were a mighty bridge invisible that passed through the air of breath and of flight (which were bent now as the world was bent), and traversed Ilmen which flesh unaided cannot endure, until it came to Tol Eressëa,

As I said, you know me, I like to know how things work (Elves walking on custard and so forth...) and this gave me plenty of things to think about when I was rummaging through HoME the other night for more info.

Firstly there's that 'permitted'. OK so that might be something Men say happens, that someone or some thing 'permits' passage, and it might not actually happen that way. But if it does need 'permission' then who gives it and how?

And who can have that permission? Do ships sail out simply hoping to be granted it or do they get some kind of message?

Secondly there's the idea that the Road is a bridge which goes through the sky (very HDM...) and the real world falls away, so that Valinor is literally removed from the world. Therefore it isn't in 'the West', it's not even in the world itself.

Then finally there's this "flesh unaided cannot endure" line. Here I'm thinking around the issue wildly but bear with me.....The Elves, we know, can exist as a fea without a hroa, but Men cannot - though Sauron may have found a way with his Ringwraiths. Do Elves simply forgo their hroa as they pass the Straight Road, knowing they can have another once they get to the Halls of Mandos? The mortals we know for certain who travel the Straight Road at the end of the Third Age are all Ringbearers, and the Ring definitely has some effect on the hroa and either removes it or absorbs it or makes it disappear (however it does it, it definitely does do something to it). Does something about the Ringbearers and what they have experienced make it likely that the Straight Road works by doing something to fea/hroa?

Slightly mad, I know, but I have to examine why and how it works

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Then finally there's this "flesh unaided cannot endure" line. Here I'm thinking around the issue wildly but bear with me.....The Elves, we know, can exist as a fea without a hroa, but Men cannot - though Sauron may have found a way with his Ringwraiths. Do Elves simply forgo their hroa as they pass the Straight Road, knowing they can have another once they get to the Halls of Mandos? The mortals we know for certain who travel the Straight Road at the end of the Third Age are all Ringbearers, and the Ring definitely has some effect on the hroa and either removes it or absorbs it or makes it disappear (however it does it, it definitely does do something to it). Does something about the Ringbearers and what they have experienced make it likely that the Straight Road works by doing something to fea/hroa?

Slightly mad, I know, but I have to examine why and how it works

An intriguing theory, Lal, and perhaps the correct view -- if it weren't for Tolkien's insistence on muddying up the waters. For instance, there's that hint that Legolas and Gimli rowed their boat ashore (alleluia!), and made it to Aman. Of course, we aren't necessarily positive that they made it, but it seems the sentimental Tolkien adds these little nuances for the express purpose of assuring us that they did indeed arrive.