Tol-in-Gaurhoth LI: The Pain of Wargs - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Thinlómien · 10-10-2008, 03:02 PM

Nogrod died? That was quite unexpected... he was suspected quite a lot. Was he suspected of seerdom, then? (Or is somebody trying to get rid of dangerous people, or confuse us, or what?) Interesting, no doubt... I will have a look at Nogrod's posts (aiee what a job

) sometime toDay, possibly right now, and see if they reveal something.

Thinlómien · 10-10-2008, 03:18 PM

No one else around? Fine... Then I will have a look at Nog's posts from yesterDay now.

Gollum the Great · 10-10-2008, 03:24 PM

Wow! This comes as a complete surprise! This completely alters my view on Nogrod.

Thinlómien · 10-10-2008, 04:04 PM

I'm not going to make a proper analysis as it would take ages and I don't feel it would be of that much use. I'll just post here the things that caught my attention:

Nogrod suspected
Gollum and Gwath, just a little, for dropping in and voting at the last minute on the previous Day. Ended up suspecting Gollum more than Gwath.
Suspected Kath.
(Half-jokingly) suspected Lommy and Legate of loverism.

Nogrod thought innocent
Mith, Brinn and Gaunt.

I don't think Nogrod's suspicions look seerish. He's too uncertain about them and/or has too many reservations. His list of innocents then... maybe? Maybe something in the way he talked about Brinn and Mith and Gaunt made the wolves think he had dreamt of two of them? I think he at least supported Mith and Brinn's innocence without much reservations... Hm....

Others' attitudes to Nogrod
Gwathagor considered him innocentish.
Rune was unsure about him but inclined to consider him innocent.
Legate didn't find him particularly suspicious.
Gollum suspected him.
Brinn wasn't enthusiastic to lynch him.
Gaunt argued with him and suspected him a little.
Kath found him suspicious but retracted much of that later when Nogrod corrected her.
Lommy found him innocentish.
The rest did not talk about him yesterDay.

I don't know what to make of this. It really doesn't look like anyone would have had especially many or few reasons to kill him. Except that Brinn and Rune and if there were other people who did so too would be rather two-faced if they were wolves: say they don't want to lynch Nog and then go and kill him. I'm not saying it's impossible or even improbable, but it's rather nasty.

Nogrod tried to interpret the rules a few times. Maybe the wolves know more than we do and killed him because he was getting too close to the truth about the rules? (Like, maybe I and Legate really are lovers and were scared he would convince others that his so very serious theory is correct?

) He didn't have any very clear theories though, except the possibility of lovers, which I myself consider unlikely. I think we would know if this was a lover game and I think no mod would start the game with just two baddies who both die and lose the game if one of them dies. Looks a little too unfair.

Okay, in conclusion: I think Nogrod was killed to a) remove a smart guy, b) to confuse us or c) because he was suspected of seerism and at least two of Mith, Brinn and Gaunt are innocent.

edit: xed with Golly

Diamond18 · 10-10-2008, 05:08 PM

Nogrod, dead, eh? Well that can only mean one thing; the culprit(s) are quiet people! Who fear Nogrod's searching eye and also find it annoying to have to read all his posts in the short time they have online before they have to make a post/vote. So, you know, I don't know who around here could possibly fit that bill...

In all seriousness though, I do kind of find Nogrod to be an odd choice for a kill. He garners a lot of attention and would be someone you could try to rustle up a lynch mob for. The only reason I can think of to kill him at night is suspicion of seerdom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lommy

Okay, in conclusion: I think Nogrod was killed to a) remove a smart guy, b) to confuse us or c) because he was suspected of seerism and at least two of Mith, Brinn and Gaunt are innocent.

I lean more towards option C (obviously, as stated) so I might hold off on voting for those people, at least for this Day.

Diamond18 · 10-10-2008, 05:10 PM

Oh, yeah, almost forgot. Speaking of my vote, it's going to have to come in the next 6 or so hours because I won't be online again before Day end. I'm going to paint and think things over.

Brinniel · 10-10-2008, 08:00 PM

Hmm...Nogrod's death is interesting indeed. A surprise simply because I kinda expected someone with little trails to be killed...

Anyways, where is everyone? Five hours into Day 3 and only a few posts. It's too quiet.

I took a nap and feel a bit refreshed, so I'll have some time to take a better look at people before I turn in for bed. I'll also have time to post later on, though I will still have to vote about four hours early. Meh, the deadline's just at an inconvenient time for me...

Rune Son of Bjarne · 10-10-2008, 09:43 PM

Let me join the choir. . . Nogrod does seem like an odd choise as he almost always end up getting lynched if just let alone, of course he could (like Lommy says) have gotten close to some truth. However I see little reason to belive that is the case, do you not think that it is simply because they want to confuse us? That or they might share Nogrod views about a quiet village being easy to hide in, of course there is also the possibility that it is the result of some twisted version of the Oedipus Complex and that would leave Lommy as the killer.

In short: I belive they are trying to confuse us.

Brinniel · 10-10-2008, 10:12 PM

YesterDay's voting:

Rune: ++Mith (Mith 1)
Brinn: ++Groin (Mith 1, Groin 1)
Gollum: ++Nogrod (Mith 1, Groin 1, Nogrod 1)
Diamond: ++Brinn (Mith 1, Groin 1, Nogrod 1, Brinn 1)
Groin: ++Lommy (Mith 1, Groin 1, Nogrod 1, Brinn 1, Lommy 1)
Mith: ++Legate (Mith 1, Groin 1, Nogrod 1, Brinn 1, Lommy 1, Legate 1)
Legate: ++Brinn (Mith 1, Groin 1, Nogrod 1, Brinn 2, Lommy 1, Legate 1)
Kath: ++Legate (Mith 1, Groin 1, Nogrod 1, Brinn 2, Lommy 1, Legate 2)
Gwath: ++Groin (Mith 1, Groin 2, Nogrod 1, Brinn 2, Lommy 1, Legate 2)
Lommy: ++Groin (Mith 1, Groin 3, Nogrod 1, Brinn 2, Lommy 1, Legate 2)
Nogrod: ++Legate (Mith 1, Groin 3, Nogrod 1, Brinn 2, Lommy 1, Legate 3)
Gaunt: ++Groin (Mith 1, Groin 4, Nogrod 1, Brinn 2, Lommy 1, Legate 3)

Did not vote: Shasta

Thoughts:

Not sure what to think about Rune's vote, I don't see why Mith's suspicious. I didn't see Gollum or Di give reasons behind their votes...I'd like to hear some explanation. If you could label players as suspicious by vote alone, that'd have to be Lommy (who brought Groin to the lead) and Gaunt (who came from nowhere and confirmed Groin's death).

A comment about Legate's vote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legate

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Hey, I've made it past Day 3 and have been innocent before. Of course I usually wind up being a misguided ordo who suspects all the wrong people...so maybe you should just lynch me.

I was of course not taking this seriously, but anyway, why are you saying this? This is silly, and it fits this un-conflict-y pattern of you too - it's that you so un-problematically accept the pattern that is outlined here for you (i.e. in this case, somebody says you are suspicious, and you in fact are nodding to him and unconflictingly accept his proposal, so to say).

I think you took this comment the wrong way...I know your comment wasn't serious and my response wasn't supposed to be serious either, hence the smiley face. But I don't exactly understand why you voted me...because I said go ahead and lynch me? I don't get why you would think being unconflicting is suspicious...I feel like that's something I've alway done regardless of role. This may be WW, but I try not to butt heads too much. I just think your vote for me seems faulty.

As of now...

Those who feel innocentish:
Mith
Kath
Gwath

Those who I want to hear more from:
Diamond
Gollum
Shasta (though I could also put him in the innocentish category simply because he seems to participate more than he has whenever he's not an ordo)

Those I want to take a better look at:
Lommy
Legate
Gaunt
Rune

Diamond18 · 10-10-2008, 10:54 PM

Well I have no more time tonight, so I'm going to vote.

++Legate

Gwathagor · 10-11-2008, 12:22 AM

I'm going to be busy for most of toDay, so I'll probably vote when I wake up in 8 hours or so.

Rune Son of Bjarne · 10-11-2008, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brinniel

YesterDay's voting:

Not sure what to think about Rune's vote, I don't see why Mith's suspicious.

That is fine, it is not like I suspected her more than you anyways so maybe I should have voted differently. Maybe it is just the style that Mith plays that confuses me, she pops up a few times and with some small posts which are mostly uncontrovertial or at least in my view not really creating much of disciution. Anyways I will not be voting for her again today, that would not be fair unless somehthing major happens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brinniel

A comment about Legate's vote:

I think you took this comment the wrong way...I know your comment wasn't serious and my response wasn't supposed to be serious either, hence the smiley face. But I don't exactly understand why you voted me...because I said go ahead and lynch me? I don't get why you would think being unconflicting is suspicious...I feel like that's something I've alway done regardless of role. This may be WW, but I try not to butt heads too much. I just think your vote for me seems faulty.

If you do not see why unconflicting is suspicious then I can understand why you do not understand me, I think it is relative well known tactic for the evil doers to be seen and yet stay clear of too many enemies. An ordo on the other hand is a bit more free and not carring, of course non of us wants to get lynched, but I think you are even more afraid of it if you are evil.

Anyways I think Legate's vote was reasonable.

Mithalwen · 10-11-2008, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

That is fine, it is not like I suspected her more than you anyways so maybe I should have voted differently. Maybe it is just the style that Mith plays that confuses me, she pops up a few times and with some small posts which are mostly uncontrovertial or at least in my view not really creating much of disciution. Anyways I will not be voting for her again today, that would not be fair unless somehthing major happens.

.

I don't see what is so confusing Rune. I have job with near standard office hours. At the time you voted for me I had been either asleep or at work since the start of play other than for a short time at lunch. Where was the scope for making more than a check in post. Really you are most unreasonable.

I believe either Lommie or Legate and probably both are up to no good. If Lommie were a traitor it makes sense that she would want Nogrod out of the way.

10-10-2008, 03:02 PM	#1
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	Nogrod died? That was quite unexpected... he was suspected quite a lot. Was he suspected of seerdom, then? (Or is somebody trying to get rid of dangerous people, or confuse us, or what?) Interesting, no doubt... I will have a look at Nogrod's posts (aiee what a job ) sometime toDay, possibly right now, and see if they reveal something. __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

10-10-2008, 03:18 PM	#2
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	No one else around? Fine... Then I will have a look at Nog's posts from yesterDay now. __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

10-10-2008, 03:24 PM	#3
Gollum the Great Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The Pinnacle of my own might Posts: 386	Wow! This comes as a complete surprise! This completely alters my view on Nogrod. __________________ 'It just shows you how true it is that one-half the world doesn't knows how the other three-quarters lives.' Bertie, The Code of the Woosters, by P. G. Wodewouse

10-10-2008, 04:04 PM	#4
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	I'm not going to make a proper analysis as it would take ages and I don't feel it would be of that much use. I'll just post here the things that caught my attention: Nogrod suspected Gollum and Gwath, just a little, for dropping in and voting at the last minute on the previous Day. Ended up suspecting Gollum more than Gwath. Suspected Kath. (Half-jokingly) suspected Lommy and Legate of loverism. Nogrod thought innocent Mith, Brinn and Gaunt. I don't think Nogrod's suspicions look seerish. He's too uncertain about them and/or has too many reservations. His list of innocents then... maybe? Maybe something in the way he talked about Brinn and Mith and Gaunt made the wolves think he had dreamt of two of them? I think he at least supported Mith and Brinn's innocence without much reservations... Hm.... Others' attitudes to Nogrod Gwathagor considered him innocentish. Rune was unsure about him but inclined to consider him innocent. Legate didn't find him particularly suspicious. Gollum suspected him. Brinn wasn't enthusiastic to lynch him. Gaunt argued with him and suspected him a little. Kath found him suspicious but retracted much of that later when Nogrod corrected her. Lommy found him innocentish. The rest did not talk about him yesterDay. I don't know what to make of this. It really doesn't look like anyone would have had especially many or few reasons to kill him. Except that Brinn and Rune and if there were other people who did so too would be rather two-faced if they were wolves: say they don't want to lynch Nog and then go and kill him. I'm not saying it's impossible or even improbable, but it's rather nasty. Nogrod tried to interpret the rules a few times. Maybe the wolves know more than we do and killed him because he was getting too close to the truth about the rules? (Like, maybe I and Legate really are lovers and were scared he would convince others that his so very serious theory is correct? ) He didn't have any very clear theories though, except the possibility of lovers, which I myself consider unlikely. I think we would know if this was a lover game and I think no mod would start the game with just two baddies who both die and lose the game if one of them dies. Looks a little too unfair. Okay, in conclusion: I think Nogrod was killed to a) remove a smart guy, b) to confuse us or c) because he was suspected of seerism and at least two of Mith, Brinn and Gaunt are innocent. edit: xed with Golly __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

10-10-2008, 05:10 PM	#6
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	Oh, yeah, almost forgot. Speaking of my vote, it's going to have to come in the next 6 or so hours because I won't be online again before Day end. I'm going to paint and think things over. __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

10-10-2008, 08:00 PM	#7
Brinniel Reflection of Darkness Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Polishing the stars. Well, somebody has to do it; they're looking a little bit dull. Posts: 2,983	Hmm...Nogrod's death is interesting indeed. A surprise simply because I kinda expected someone with little trails to be killed... Anyways, where is everyone? Five hours into Day 3 and only a few posts. It's too quiet. I took a nap and feel a bit refreshed, so I'll have some time to take a better look at people before I turn in for bed. I'll also have time to post later on, though I will still have to vote about four hours early. Meh, the deadline's just at an inconvenient time for me... __________________ Nolite te bastardes carborundorum

10-10-2008, 10:54 PM	#10
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	Well I have no more time tonight, so I'm going to vote. ++Legate __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

10-11-2008, 12:22 AM	#11
Gwathagor Shade with a Blade Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: A Rainy Night In Soho Posts: 2,512	I'm going to be busy for most of toDay, so I'll probably vote when I wake up in 8 hours or so. __________________ Stories and songs.

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