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Old 09-21-2008, 04:36 PM   #1
Ibrīnišilpathānezel
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It is true that the Valar regretted the War of Wrath and the destruction it caused to the lands of Middle-earth, but it is also true that Eru felt that this situation could have been avoided if the Valar had dealt with Melkor much sooner, rather than allow him to have so much free rein in ME, both before the Elves awakened and after. I have done a lot of reading and research in all of the books, including the Letters and HoME books, but I haven't read through any of them recently enough to remember precisely where these references are. *sigh* I know where most of my copies of the books are: buried in my office, all too literally, so I don't really have access to them right now. As soon as I can get at them, I must read through them again, 'cause I can remember many things, but can't tell you exactly where it appeared. *double sigh* They say the memory is the first thing to go, and they may be right....

Now that said, in one of the few books I do have access to (UT), it is said about the Istari and the fact that they were sent in humble human forms:

Quote:
"And this the Valar did, desiring to amend the errors of old, especially that they had attempted to guard and seclude the Eldar by their own might and glory revealed; whereas now their emissaries were forbidden to reveal themselves in forms of majesty, or to seek to rule the wills of Men or Elves by open display of power."
The error, from other references I recall but cannot quote (at the moment), was twofold: that the Valar used a display of power to influence the Elves so that they would come to Valinor for protection, and that they had put off a final confrontation with Melkor for so long, such seclusion was (at least in their minds) necessary. This was not what Eru would have wanted; he would have preferred for the Valar to trust him to safeguard his Children while Melkor was dealt with (or better, deal with him before the Children awakened). They didn't, and they made mistakes in both the use of Authority and Might.

I REALLY need to get a bulldozer and clean out the years of detritus that have buried my office....
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Old 09-21-2008, 06:56 PM   #2
Legate of Amon Lanc
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Well, do buldooze then, if you have chance I would really like to know, if there's anything particular to say to this aspect, especially if that was from Eru himself.

However, indeed what you quoted is what I had in mind: the "amending the errors of old", especially in this context with might of Valar put in contrast to the humbleness of the Wizards, speaks for not using the power by the Valar when it came to the Elves and the war and that's how I have always understood it. Of course the situation was a little different there when Melkor, one of the Valar himself was reigning there, but that was just the time when Valar had to adapt to the fact that the world is no longer a battlefield of gods but that there are also different subtler, yet free beings emerging.
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Old 09-21-2008, 07:32 PM   #3
Ibrīnišilpathānezel
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For myself, I do think that the biggest error the Valar made "of old" was not taking care of Melkor and his threat before the Elves awakened. At that point, the use of power (as in might) would have been appropriate, because that was how Melkor operated. He kept destroying things, Aule and others kept building them back up again. Manwe had been given the authority (as in power ) by Eru to deal with his renegade activities, since he had been appointed as the king, not Melkor (which I'm sure stuck in Melkor's craw). But he didn't exercise that authority to deal decisively with his brother, and the world suffered for it again and again. So I do not wonder that Manwe made another error in wanting to seclude the Elves rather than fight his brother to protect them. As I recall, Eru's specific annoyance with this was the lack of trust (or perhaps faith) in him that the Valar displayed, fearing more that a confrontation with Melkor would hurt the Children more than they trusted Eru to protect the Elves from harm. It really isn't just about having power, but knowing when its use is truly appropriate. I sometimes wonder if Manwe, in his naievete about Evil, also was in the dark about certain aspects of power -- ones that might "feel" evil to someone with that kind of innocence, whether they truly were or not. The Istari being sent in a diminished human form was an attempt, I think, to do it right for a change, and that still almost turned out to be too little too late.

Sometimes, it does make one wonder why Manwe was put in charge. Sometimes.

I will see about renting a bulldozer tomorrow. That room really is in a state, as it got crammed with all the junk from my last business when I dissolved the partnership. It was a messy, messy sitution, just like the room is now (which is probably no coincidence, either).
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