Are Orcs That Bad?

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Tolkien's societal norms are static, unchanging for ages (one of the few real dislikes I have for the overall tale); ergo, there is little chance for attitudinal changes within societies regarding those of another race (Elves of Lorien still holding a centuries-old grudge against the Dwarves, for instance). I guess what one would have to really ask is, given the static nature of societies (Orcs included), does it seem likely that such redemption could take place? The answer would be no, given the information we have.

But isn't the staticness partly because elves are immortal (Men change alliances at certain times). If everyone around you has lived through a war against the orcs, and tells you how disgusting and cruel they are (first hand account) and what the did to Jimbobaurë, etc, then you would have something aggainst them too. Things are much less easily forgotten by elves because of their immortality. Think about- Cirdan has lived through probably all the torments of the Elves and Men, and would have a good cause to oppose orcs. He can go on telling people about the evilness lf orcs for 3+ ages. That must have an effect (or rather, lower the likelihood of change). If you are brought up in an orc-hating society, with people that have actually seen their horrors, then there is not much chance of change.

Likewise Morgoth, then Sauron, constantly drive their orcs against the "goodies". The ircs don't stand a chance. They give in to what (by the marvels of genetic engineering) their impulses are, having no regard for social harmony, and are taught to enjoy torturing. It's quite hard to escape from such a totalitarian system, when your leader is a powerful god. Not to mention he can read your mind.

Dwarves are a mostly cut-off people from the outside world (they keep to themselves), so their thoughts stagnate within their tunnels. Not to mention the many attacks on them by "goblins".

Men, on the other hand, are different. Having a short lifespan compared to dwarves and elves, things are forgotten much more quickly. Their alliances do fluctuate.