Tol-in-Gaurhoth XLVII: Dueling Wizards Werewolf II

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Anyway, yes, Legate is a wolf, and my seer dreamt of him.

Well, then it is clear. And given the way Rikae speaks about phantom, it makes me think that phantom is not lying. But the question, as posed, is the above - whom to vote for, now that it's clear. Rikae is surely up to no good. Cailín, from my pov, if I believe phantom's words, most likely. Heck, Rikae, if she is something, can be lynched toMorrow, and if phantom is her accomplice, he can be done after that, and then... whatever. I would go for trusting phantom, at least for now.

Otherwise, speaking of other people - just for the case that I won't be here toMorrow to say that: there was Lommy, who indeed "was all over the place since Rikae revealed", and I already proposed before that she may have been innocent at start but scried. That's one thing I am currently pondering as probability.

After all of this I am feeling better of Lalaith... and of Gwath also, somewhat.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Phantom could also be lying just to cause confusion.

Yeesh, you people.

Yeah, because that makes total sense. When your team is already in trouble, go and commit suicide just to cause a bit of very temporary confusion. That makes total sense.

Just to make sure everyone sees it, from this point on I'm going to put a link in every one of my posts which will take you back to the post in which I demonstrate that TP=Bad makes absolutely no sense.

Believe me.

[satansaloser2005]

By the way. My last post was not directed toward any of you. "This is ridiculous" is more of the situation in general, not the way people are dealing with it. Just letting that be known, as it looked a little rude to me. Okay, leaving now before I end up being a sauteed Sally. Play nice while I'm gone kiddos.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Yeesh, you people.

Yeah, because that makes total sense. When your team is already in trouble, go and commit suicide just to cause a bit of very temporary confusion. That makes total sense.

Just to make sure everyone sees it, from this point on I'm going to put a link in every one of my posts which will take you back to the post in which I demonstrate that TP=Bad makes absolutely no sense.

Believe me.

Hehe. Phantom, if you're ever in Crete, call me and remind me I owe you a hug for keeping me amused. Silly guy. *is really leaving now*

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by the phantom

When your team is already in trouble, go and commit suicide just to cause a bit of very temporary confusion. That makes total sense.

Wait - evil team is in trouble? Since when? I thought we were the ones in trouble... What do you mean by evil team being in trouble? For all I can see they're probably laughing at everybody right now and I can see no particular reason for them to be in trouble. Why do you think they're in trouble? Do you know who the evil team are as you claim that? Was that a slip? Or am I missing something? This is rather confusing...


edit: xed with the double-sallie

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

It's this sort of speculation, Legate, which leads me to suspect you really are innocent. (Aside from the bloody rudeness ) I mean, if you were a wolf, you wouldn't care whether we went for Cailin or Rikae.

Thank you. Speaking of that, phantom, will you please answer that? (look up the question in Lalaith's post I quoted)

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Phantom could also be lying just to cause confusion.

Rikae's return kind of ruined everything. Her tone seems quite honest... yet lynching her might still be the best choice....

Oh you are soo obvious!
No, really, Lommy, you are trying to keep your distance, appear yet undecided, if possibly you could not find support for trusting Rikae. If you are innocent, by all believe me that Rikae is lying. If not, then it is clear what you are, and that you are trying to do what I just said.

[the phantom]

I seriously don't understand you people coming up with these terrible reasons for why I would step up and reveal if I'm actually a Baddie.

You can't just say "to cause confusion". You need to stop and think what my action will RESULT in (as far as lynches, scries, dreams, hunts, etc). My move needs to make some sort of logical sense, meaning that my move would have to give my team an advantage greater than the price of losing a WW.

Or in Green's idea, in which she suggests both Cai and I are WWs, you need to think of how my move could possibly give my team an advantage greater than the price of two WWs.

Think, people!!

Don't just feel! THINK!

.

[Thinlómien]

Okay, phantom, why not lynch Rikae? If she's lying like you claim, she's a ww. So it shouldn't matter to you whether we lynch one "known wolf" (Rikae) or another (Cailín). So why are you so adamant on lynching Cailín, not Rikae?


edit: xed with phantom and Legate

[Diamond18]

The more I think about, the less of an option lynching Rikae is. It's just going to force the GW to scry Cailin in the night, to get rid of a wolf, and then there won't be a Ranger.

If you want to be "safe" (ha!) and vote Rikae, go ahead. If she gets her way, she (and Roa and Lommy and Cailin) deserve to eat this village. For my part, it's clear what the best choice is, so for better or worse:

++ CAILIN

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Wait - evil team is in trouble? Since when? I thought we were the ones in trouble... What do you mean by evil team being in trouble?

They only have four WWs, and it is a fact that the Good Guys can cut them down to three.

Would it make any sense for yet another WW to step forward so that the WWs could be cut down to 2 overnight?

Originally Posted by Legate

Speaking of that, phantom, will you please answer that?

Answer what? *scratches head*

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Wait - evil team is in trouble? Since when? I thought we were the ones in trouble... What do you mean by evil team being in trouble?

He says that because he knows perfectly well the evil team is in trouble, and he just gambled and lost. However, if I told you everything before toMorrow, I would be helping the EW by doing so.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Okay, phantom, why not lynch Rikae? If she's lying like you claim, she's a ww. So it shouldn't matter to you whether we lynch one "known wolf" (Rikae) or another (Cailín). So why are you so adamant on lynching Cailín, not Rikae?

Oh wow. You are so a wolf.

Rikae could be (and probably is) the Evil Wizard. Lynching her results in no wolf death at all, in this case. The GW promised Phantom a cool death scene if he Hunted Cailin, which sounds an awful lot like she's a wolf.

But then, I'm betting you know that already.

[the phantom]

Okay, phantom, why not lynch Rikae? If she's lying like you claim, she's a ww. So it shouldn't matter to you whether we lynch one "known wolf" (Rikae) or another (Cailín). So why are you so adamant on lynching Cailín, not Rikae?

Because I know what Cailin is, not Rikae.

It is technically possible that Rikae is the EW, in which case the lynch of Rikae would be absolutely worthless.

We have a chance to limit the WWs to one kill. We need to do it.

Leave Rikae to me and the GW.

.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

If you are innocent, by all believe me that Rikae is lying. If not, then it is clear what you are, and that you are trying to do what I just said.

I do think Rikae is lying but I cannot be sure. It's easy for you to say if you're indeed innocent and she's framing you. I have absolutely no way of knowing for certain.

Besides, I tend to say my impressions/opinions aloud whether they're consistent or not. I just write what I think at the moment when I'm writing. (You can see this from my posts where I first state I think something and in the next paragraph I contradict it. Sheesh, I guess that's the famous Lommy-flip-flopping. )


edit: xed with everything since my last post

[Thinlómien]

What does it matter if we leave Cailín-wolf or Rikae-wolf to be scried to innocent next Night? We still can't get a new ranger... Honestly, your logic is faulty...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Answer what? *scratches head*

I told you to look it up in Lal's post, my slightly slower business partner
But here it is in full - from my post once upon a time:

So you know she (Cailín) is a WW? Or did the GW just tell you to Hunt her, well, that does not necessarily mean she is a WW, you know what I mean? Maybe it's just a suspect for a Wolf. With Rikae then, we would be sure (or surer) there is some sinister idea behind all of that, whatever she is. But I agree that we should agree on something. And right now... right now if you say Cailín, I may as well be persuaded to do so, but... what do the others think.

Anyway, it does not seem to be too much of a question, as "reactionary powers" have started to urge for lynching Rikae, and others have already started voting Cailín... but still you could answer.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Lommy

I do think Rikae is lying but I cannot be sure.

Well, then if you think she is, by Eru help me strike a blow against her side!

So you know she (Cailín) is a WW? Or did the GW just tell you to Hunt her, well, that does not necessarily mean she is a WW, you know what I mean?

Oh, sorry.

Yes, yes, I know she is a WW. I did lots of chatting with the GW, so I knew exactly what he was telling me. As a matter of fact he even made a comment shortly before daybreak asking my thoughts on who the "other three" could be.

Cailin's a WW.

.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I do think Rikae is lying but I cannot be sure. It's easy for you to say if you're indeed innocent and she's framing you. I have absolutely no way of knowing for certain.

Besides, I tend to say my impressions/opinions aloud whether they're consistent or not. I just write what I think at the moment when I'm writing. (You can see this from my posts where I first state I think something and in the next paragraph I contradict it. Sheesh, I guess that's the famous Lommy-flip-flopping. )

Ah. You are probably trying to be nice, and to seem reasonable, and to seem "typical" (flip-flopping...) but... Anyway. Today's question is about Rikae or Cailín now, clearly enough, and heck, if Cailín is not what phantom says - if he really knows she's a Wolf - then we still have a nice row of pre-ordined lynches or whatever for the upcoming days.

I also just thought of a slightly meta-game reason for Cailín being a wolf. I am not sure whether to say it, since it is really somewhat metagame. Although, not that much.

[Brinniel]

Yeesh...so this is what happens while I'm gone? Boy, this is really giving me a headache...

First off, there's just no way that Rikae could be the GW...I just can't believe that. As others said, why would she reveal now...plus, all she's doing is causing confusion so if she were the GW, I would have to say she's not a very good one. I'm surprised people were actually believing her at first, but I'm glad to see that things have since changed.

Now what does this mean? She could either be the EW or a wolf. I'm thinking it's more likely she's a wolf ordered by the EW to act suicidal or impersonate the GW. But I'm not certain. And is Legate actually evil or innocent? Could be either.

If we lynched Legate and he was a wolf, we still won't immediately know Rikae's identity, but the Night would answer that. Surely, the GW would scry her if lying...if the EW, the identity is known and if a wolf, she'll be turned back to ordo and she could tell all the next Day...unless the wolves kill her. If Rikae's, a wizard whether good or bad, there will be a duel toMorrow. The problem with lynching Legate is the possiblity that he is innocent. And also, we wouldn't be getting a new ranger toNight.

If we lynch Rikae, two things could happen. She could die and be revealed as a wolf. Or she could not die and will be a known wizard...but we won't know which side. Of course the opposing wizard will know and won't have to worry about scrying for a wizard at Night...the duel will happen Day 4 and we'll know the truth. The only problem I see here is that if she is a wizard, then we don't kill a wolf tonight which means probably by the time the duel occurs there'll be five wolves. Eek.

And then there's this whole thing with phantom. I don't know if he's telling the truth. He could be lying as a wolf or EW, or he could be an ordo lying trying to fool the wolves. He's advocating the lynching of Cailin, but if a true hunter he should in fact let himself get lynched. Then if he is the hunter he'll be taking down a possible Cailin-wolf with him. Because if he is telling the truth, then the wizard will scry him toNight, then the wolves will probably kill him anyway (not taking other events into account). If phantom is innocent, he'll probably die toNight. And if not, he's either a wolf already or will be turned into one (unless he's actually the EW). Problems: tp could be just an ordo then we simply lynched an innocent. Or he's the hunter, but wrong about Cailin, then two innocents are dead.

Lynching candidates: Rikae, Legate, phantom

Hmm...this is going to be a tough decision. At least I've got two more hours.

Oh, and I know I said I would look at Lommy and I still want to, but I was totally not expecting this all to happen. Any analysis of her may have to wait until toMorrow as I'm confuzzled enough as it is.

Btw, I'm x-posting with a ton of people but I just don't care to catch up any more before submitting this post...

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

What does it matter if we leave Cailín-wolf or Rikae-wolf to be scried to innocent next Night? We still can't get a new ranger... Honestly, your logic is faulty...

Why are you intent on ignoring the (very likely) possibility that Rikae is the Evil Wizard?

You're either a wolf or the EW yourself, Lom-dear, and every post you are making is reinforcing that notion.

In fact I'm starting to think it's a good idea to lynch Cailin, scry you, and be down two wolves. There'd still be no Ranger, but being down two wolves would be a major plus as the two remaining wolves and the (possible) new wolf would not be able to kill more than one person during the night.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Cailin's a WW.

Really? 100%? No way you could have misunderstood that?

Then I think I am going to go for it...

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Yes, yes, I know she is a WW. I did lots of chatting with the GW, so I knew exactly what he was telling me. As a matter of fact he even made a comment shortly before daybreak asking my thoughts on who the "other three" could be.

"He"?

[the phantom]

Brin, the idea that the EW will scry me tonight and then have the WWs kill me isn't really all that bad. If it goes down like that the EW will be wasting most of his nightly power focusing on me, thus allowing the GW to scry to turn a WW or create a new Ranger.

It would really be a shame to allow the EW to do whatever he wishes with his nightly scry and kills. By leaving me alive we force his hand. That is why I am not advocating lynching me.

But despite that....

If you believe me then you need to lynch Cailin.

If you believe Rikae, then, though it would be a victory for the EW, you might as well just lynch me.

It's down to that.

There is NO WAY Rikae or Legate should be on your lynch list.

.

[Diamond18]

Nilp for Rikae
Lhuna for Sally
Izzy for Di
Rikae for Rikae
morm for Lommy
Diamond for Cailin

Rikae 2
Sally 1
Di 1
Lommy 1
Cailin 1

A vote for Cailin is a vote for good.

A vote for anyone else is a vote for evil.

[the phantom]

"He"?

Yes, it takes too long to do he/she himself/herself all the time, so I've generally been calling the EW or GW by their title or "he".

Don't read into it.

[the phantom]

Really? 100%? No way you could have misunderstood that?

No, I did not misunderstand.

Promise.

[Rikae]

Go ahead and lynch Cailin if you trust tp over me.
I already have the enemy where I want them.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Go ahead and lynch Cailin if you trust tp over me.
I already have the enemy where I want them.

Did you hear that?

Even Rikae is saying to do it.

Lynch Cailin.

[Diamond18]

It would be cool if Spivak Gender Neutral nouns could catch on in WW.

No reading stuff into what anyone says regarding this.

[the phantom]

I already have the enemy where I want them.

"The enemy", eh? I notice you didn't say "The Werewolves".

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Heck, all right. If it is a devious master plan, then it is a devious master plan, and all phantoms and their henchmen deserve to be lynched for a long time to come. But I believe him, and so be it.

++Cailín

Let's follow the example, and the truth will show itself.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Go ahead and lynch Cailin if you trust tp over me.
I already have the enemy where I want them.

Wow. Telling your wolves to go ahead and sacrifice her, then? You already know what you want?

[Lalaith]

why not lynch Rikae? If she's lying like you claim, she's a ww. So it shouldn't matter to you whether we lynch one "known wolf" (Rikae) or another (Cailín). So why are you so adamant on lynching Cailín, not Rikae?

Again, Lommy, you're off. If she's lying she's a wolf...or the EW. Why didn't you get that? You would, usually, you know...

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Legate

Heck, all right. If it is a devious master plan, then it is a devious master plan, and all phantoms and their henchmen deserve to be lynched for a long time to come.

Ha ha ha!

Yes, I hereby swear that if I am lying to you, you all have permission to lynch me on Day 1 of every village from here on out!

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Rikae

However, if I told you everything before toMorrow, I would be helping the EW by doing so.

I think you had better anyway, because you haven't given me any actual reason to believe you. I'm going to need that explanation which you are so loath to give. What do you mean you have the enemy where you want them? Why did you reveal toDay?

[Cailín]

Hi everyone. I am going to require your attention for a moment.

This is important.

I am baffled, flattered (a little) and frustrated (a bit more) by the whole proceeding. I feel like a total unknowing pawn in this game; and I am being toyed with. I cannot stress enough how I am - much to my dismay, and to be honest, disappointment - ordinary, and innocent.

I'm a bit freaked out by what's happened here. I knew the case against me was totally irrational from the start and feel like this has all been planned and staged for a long time. Diamond started going after me from the start of the second Day (with no reasoning whatsoever). I have come up with several theories, yet none seems to fit.

The phantom is lying. Rikae? I am not sure. Are they even enemies?

[A Little Green]

I can't trust your word on this, phantom. The reason is that according your theory, Rikae is the EW (that's why she is to be left to you and the GW, and that's why it isn't the same whether we lynch Rikae or Cailín), but you still haven't explained why would an EW-Rikae reveal as a GW. I think that's the biggest flaw in your claim, or else it's something very obvious for everyone else and I just can't see it.

In any case I think we can shut out the possibility of tp being an ordo, unless he had decided to turn cobbler or else just tries to confuse the village as much as possible just for the fun of it.

I don't trust Rikae. Her claim was, like some said, very oddly placed and makes no sense. On the other hand, I'm not comfortable with phantom, either. So, quite frankly, I'm at a loss with what to do.

Seriously, this game is making me nuts.


EDIT: x-ed since phantom's 863

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by tp

Brin, the idea that the EW will scry me tonight and then have the WWs kill me isn't really all that bad. If it goes down like that the EW will be wasting most of his nightly power focusing on me, thus allowing the GW to scry to turn a WW or create a new Ranger.

It would really be a shame to allow the EW to do whatever he wishes with his nightly scry and kills. By leaving me alive we force his hand. That is why I am not advocating lynching me.

If you believe me then you need to lynch Cailin.

If you believe Rikae, then, though it would be a victory for the EW, you might as well just lynch me.

It's down to that.

There is NO WAY Rikae or Legate should be on your lynch list.

Okay, that's a good point. I like the idea of the EW wasting the Night taking care of you...that is, if you really are what you say you are.

Reading Legate's newer posts, he seems more innocentish to me and I agree on some things he says about Lommy that makes me worry about her (I just hope I'm not being mislead as he's really good at doing that). I disagree with the idea that there's "no way" Rikae should be on my list...I still worry about her.

The thing I'd worry about lynching phantom anyway, is the risk of lynching two innocents at once if he's wrong about Cailin. But if he's really the hunter, then he wouldn't be saying he's 100% sure about her unless he really was. If Cailin got lynched and was innocent, tp would surely be either a wolf or the EW. But I'm still split between whether tp is being honest or not. For all we know, he and Rikae could both be evil.

I'm changing my lynch candidates slightly: Rikae, Cailin, phantom

X-posting with many more...

[Gwathagor]

Here's a thought. If tp is so sure about Cailin, why hasn't he voted her yet?

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Sally

Hehe. Phantom, if you're ever in Crete, call me and remind me I owe you a hug for keeping me amused. Silly guy.

Ha ha! Just saw this. No, no, you should come up here. Much more to do.

Originally Posted by Gwath

I think you had better anyway, because you haven't given me any actual reason to believe you.

Don't bother, Gwath. I've already explained that there is no way my move makes sense as a Baddie. Trust me on this.

Originally Posted by Cailin

I'm a bit freaked out by what's happened here. I knew the case against me was totally irrational from the start and feel like this has all been planned and staged for a long time.

Wrong. Unless by "long time" you mean last night. I knew nothing till then, but since the, yes, I have been planning an attack on you.