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#1 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
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While not being a tax accountant or attorney, I do know this much: you never have to pay income tax unless you first generate the income. JRRT - God bless him - generated lots of income. He took the profit sharing checks and cashed them and spent them. And then the tax came due and surprise surprise - no money was left. I do not think he was all by himself in that line.
There is a certain conservative element in todays politics who bring up the word TAXES as if it is the filthiest profanity one can utter. They use it like a broadsword making you think they are wielding a weapon from God fighting against all types of sinful governmental behavior. JRRT had to pay his taxes because of income earned from the books. He apparently did not put aside the money and instead had to generate new income so he sold the film rights. Thats the way life works - for him and the rest of us. At least he had some film rights to sell. |
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#2 | ||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
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Quote:
The picture painted by the very detailed Chronology of H&S is that Tolkien made a deal with Stanley Unwin well before 1969. And in 1961 Rayner reminded Tolkien of the policy he had agreed to with Stanley Unwin: cash or Kudos (source Hammond and Scull) when Rembrandt Films became interested in cartoon films of the Hobbit. Tolkien wrote to Raynor: Quote:
In 1969 (near the rumors of the Beatles and a film surfaced) Rayner Unwin again reminded Tolkien of their agreement (Hammond and Scull): that if a film brings cash, they will waive any kudos. He points out to Tolkien that whatever the film is like 'the book remains inviolable and that is the main thing. What they do with the property in other media will, I regret to say, be entirely their responsibility from an aesthetic point of view, will only vary in degrees between bad at best and execrable at the worst.' OK, negotiations had begun in 1967. The implication I get is that the agreement in the 1950s was in play, and that A&U and Swanson were basically handling things; and the deal was finally ready in 1969. Of course I've read this before about the bill, and so it would seem to be true; but if so I would hope it has a fairly reliable source (and probably does). I just want to know the source of this statement to see if it is true and to consider for myself its reliability -- Rayner Unwin? Joy Hill? Tolkien himself? some 'deduction' made by some lawyer? Last edited by Galin; 06-04-2008 at 06:16 AM. |
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#3 |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
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The tax bill story has been repeated often in the press- and although the press is notoriously unreliable on these things, I believe the tax bill line appeared in the very accurate story printed in 2001 in The Financial Times, which for the first time (TMK) gave the correct cash consideration and the fact that there were residuals.
The problem which afflicted Tolkien in the late 1960's was that the Ballantine paperbacks and ensuing Tolkien Craze generated royalties vastly beyond anything he had anticipated even in 1962- and *suddenly* exposed him to Surtax. (The Inland Revenue, at least back then, had a nasty habit of 'surprising' you with a bill- calculated on an accrual, not a cash, basis). There was also the fact that Tolkien had been forced in 1968 to make an unplanned move to Bournemouth and buy a very expensive house, which probably consumed most of his liquid cash.
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
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#4 | |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,460
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Quote:
I think that you are missing the point that the tax rate was potentially over 100% ie he was expected to pay more than he had actually earnt. Which is not something most of us could cope with especially without the benefit of collateral. . It isn't quite the same as me knowing that when I receive my dividends I should put aside 10-20% for the bill that will arrive at Christmas. He didn't just go mad at Blackwells or anywhere. This was a man who had worked hard and struggled to feed and educate his family, who lived in a modest house with very basic amenities in Oxford, hit by a punitive tax regime from a Labour Government that was actually socialist and was trying to redistribute wealth as well as shore up a dire economy. To make a man who lived as frugally as Tolkien seem a irresponsible spendthrift while wilfully ignoring the reality of the situation is neither fair nor charitable.
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“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace |
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#5 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
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from WCH
Quote:
This entire line of excuse - that JRRT was thrust into this terrible tight spot where he had to swallow hard, grit his teeth and give up his beloved baby to an evil government is a bit much. |
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#6 | |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
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Quote:
__________________
The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
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#7 | |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,515
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Quote:
Let me tell you how it will be There's one for you, nineteen for me 'Cause I'm the taxman Yeah, I'm the taxman Should five percent appear too small Be thankful I don't take it all 'Cause I'm the taxman Yeah, I'm the taxman (If you drive a car) I'll tax the street (If you try to sit) I'll tax your seat (If you get too cold) I'll tax the heat (If you take a walk) I'll tax your feet Taxman! 'Cause I'm the taxman Yeah, I'm the taxman Don't ask me what I want it for (Tax man, Mr. Wilson) If you don't want to pay some more (Tax man, Mr. Heath) 'Cause I'm the taxman Yeah, I'm the taxman Now my advice for those who die (Taxman!) Declare the pennies on your eyes (Taxman!) 'Cause I'm the taxman Yeah, I'm the taxman And you're working for no one, but me (Taxman!)
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And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. |
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#8 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
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I did not think we were debating the merits of high tax versus low tax. In fact, I thought there was a strict policy here of NOT discussing political issues and keeping it on point of Tolkien and his creations. I am not a British citizen and have no opinion on their tax system, its history or its application and impact. All I know, and what I have stated, is that every citizen has to pay their taxes just like any other expense.
There is a obvious undercurrent here in some posts which more or less go like this: The evil , terrible, opressive government used their coercive state powers to force kindly, old JRRT into a no-win spot putting a gun to his head forcing him to unwillingly sell film rights to a bunch of satanic pirates who then destroyed the heart and soul of his work making movies we now hate. Its really a bit silly. |
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#9 | |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
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Quote:
__________________
The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
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#10 | |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,460
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Quote:
Stating historical fact is not political ... I very much doubt that referring to forty year old fiscal legislation will get me banned but you are welcome to try. Just don't pin some secret agenda from your own imagination on me.
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“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace Last edited by Mithalwen; 06-04-2008 at 06:30 AM. |
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