Dueling Wizards Werewolf II discussion thread

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Professions: Celuien, Morm, Kitanna, Kath, and Eonwe- do have jobs and if so, what are they?

I had planned to claim lonely goat herder, but opted not to since Legate and phantom are already sheep herders. So everyone village, town, city, place with two houses in it, needs a tavern wench. Gladly shall I fill that role.

[Kath]

Ooh you're right Roa, I don't have a role. Hmm, I can't think of anything. If anyone wants to give me one please do! Or you Roa if you need to get that chart finished.

[Cailín]

Originally Posted by Kath

Ooh you're right Roa, I don't have a role. Hmm, I can't think of anything. If anyone wants to give me one please do! Or you Roa if you need to get that chart finished.

Eomer: "Is Kath playing?"

Me: "Yeah."

Eomer: "Hm. I'd probably vote for her. I think she's a wolf."

---

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Shasta

*goes down on one knee*

Greenie, will you marry me?

Of course my horse... umm... I mean husband.

[Kath]

Originally Posted by Cailín

Eomer: "Is Kath playing?"

Me: "Yeah."

Eomer: "Hm. I'd probably vote for her. I think she's a wolf."

---

I feel honoured. Perhaps my role should be perenially suspicious person.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Nog, two technical things: first, given the age of me and my sisters, perhaps you should remove my label as "big" brother, because I am younger than both of them. Unless it's meant physically. Which... well, why not. At least you won't have to change anything.

But second, a question: I suppose even the people like Ranger will be informed, when they post their pick to the GW and it's changed, that it has been changed and who was protected, right? Like, I am a Ranger, want to protect Volo, my GW chooses that I will rather protect Greenie, so I will be informed that I protected Greenie (even if nothing happens during the night which should concern me)? It's only logical, but asking just to be certain (and because it means giving the Gifteds at least a confirmation of what they have done all night).

[Nogrod]

A soap opera indeed... or a wicked sitcom...

Concerning Legate's question: yes I think it would be fair for the gifteds to know who they have actually targeted. I was a wolf myself in the first DW and being totally in the darkness was a bit annoying. Given that information the gifted might at least speculate herself what is going on. So unless anyone strongly objects this with good reasons I'd like the gifteds (and wolves) to know what the wizards final decision was.

About the modfire then. If someone doesn't post anything on two Days in a row she will be modfired eg. removed from the game. I don't know whether you consider this a light or strong version of it but to me it looks like not playing and thence getting removed.

Relations & occupations are upgraded once more.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

*giggles and casts a sideway glance to Aganzir*

*giggles and casts a sideway glance at Lommy*
Let's just hope that the lean abhorred monster won't take sally to be his paramour... But a pity that our ww got him to dislike the story this much.

Originally Posted by THE Ka

Our game already is more confusing than a Sim's neighbourhood

Only the fact that I haven't had too much time to play the Sims recently helps me to resist the temptation to create a Sims neighbourhood for this.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So unless anyone strongly objects this with good reasons I'd like the gifteds (and wolves) to know what the wizards final decision was.

Originally Posted by Nog

If someone doesn't post anything on two Days in a row she will be modfired eg. removed from the game.

I think these both sound fair.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I had planned to claim lonely goat herder, but opted not to since Legate and phantom are already sheep herders. So everyone village, town, city, place with two houses in it, needs a tavern wench. Gladly shall I fill that role.

My daughter, a tavern wench? Why couldn't you be a respectable apprentice like your sister?

If we have a tavern wench, then we likely need a tavern, and thus a tavern owner. There's a job for anyone who can't think of something.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Roa

If we have a tavern wench, then we likely need a tavern, and thus a tavern owner. There's a job for anyone who can't think of something.

Wasn't Kath still without an occupation and not having too many ideas about it? I could see her as the tavern owner... and think about how she and Brinn might have then met and how, or at least think what the villagers would talk about it!

A few days to the beginning!

I'll try to make some extra fun by providing a small map of the village if I have time so that you can relate to the narrations and possibly use it in your own posting as well.

And btw. even if all this relations-stuff and all strongly suggests something like roleplaying nothing of the sort is required. All these things are here just for the fun of it (just think of all this discussion here already - and the game hasn't even started yet!) and possibly helping us to have a more enjoyable Day1. And surely to help me with the narrations even if this is admittedly getting a bit complicated. But who wouldn't love a challenge?

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Only the fact that I haven't had too much time to play the Sims recently helps me to resist the temptation to create a Sims neighbourhood for this.

Oh no, how could you? Now that you've mentioned it and I do in fact have too much time on my hands, I'm actually considering creating the neighbourhood myself...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Roa

Everyone, please be sure to review the last chart I posted and double check to make sure everything is correct for you.

Would you add Eomer into the chart as Cailín's husband? He will be in the narration of Night1 and if he will actually play as well in a situation when Cailín can't it would be nice to have him on board there as well.

And a minor correction: Gwath is a highwayman but his brother McCaber is a henchman. So they are not both highwaymen.

[Kath]

Wasn't Kath still without an occupation and not having too many ideas about it? I could see her as the tavern owner... and think about how she and Brinn might have then met and how, or at least think what the villagers would talk about it!

Ah! That's brilliant. Alright, I'll take tavern owner if that alright with my life partner. Brinn's occupation should run alongside mine quite nicely that way.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Kath

Alright, I'll take tavern owner if that alright with my life partner.

Will you sell your dad's sandwiches in there? Or maybe some poultry-dishes provided by your mom? And as your uncle is an apple farmer you'd surely have some cider there as well...

[Roa_Aoife]

So long as Brinn keeps an eye on her sister.... And keeps those trouble-making cousins of hers away.

[Durelin]

Roa - I'd like to really be an evil twin, not just an evil sister, so I'll go with 20 as well, though we'll say I am the technically younger twin.

Thanks for tackling the chart!!

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Thank you for accepting me as a son Lommy and Nilp. But how old does that make me?

Your sisters are 20 and 17. Do you want to be the oldest, youngest, or middle child? And do you want to have a profession? If you're young enough to be in school, I need a teacher's pet.

Originally Posted by Durelin

Roa - I'd like to really be an evil twin, not just an evil sister, so I'll go with 20 as well, though we'll say I am the technically younger twin.

Got it.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Would you add Eomer into the chart as Cailín's husband? He will be in the narration of Night1 and if he will actually play as well in a situation when Cailín can't it would be nice to have him on board there as well.

And a minor correction: Gwath is a highwayman but his brother McCaber is a henchman. So they are not both highwaymen.

Done and done.

I still need professions from Morm and Celuien. Anyone know where they are?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

*goes down on one knee*

Greenie, will you marry me?

*hugs* Grandfather! I'm so excited you agreed to play!

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Oh dear, I see a swift rap with a cane in your future, Sally, my beloved granddaughter. <_<;;

(No, just kidding. :P)

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Thank's Roa!

Both families seem to stick to themselves with the exception of Brinn & Kath and Legate & Sally who dare to mix with the other family!

Well, since I'm from the midwest in real-life, I decided to go for a change of pace and exclude my kin from the dating pool in the game.



And yes, I'm kidding. Sickos. :P

[Macalaure]

One last question about the rules:

Originally Posted by the Rules

The number of gifteds the GW can scry is three eg. one each. One that dies can be replaced on the next Night.

What if a gifted is unscried by the EW? Does the person scried by the GW (if not evil) automatically become the new gifted even when his roster was full when he scried, or is "unscried" treated the same way as "killed" in this regard?

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Oh no, how could you? Now that you've mentioned it and I do in fact have too much time on my hands, I'm actually considering creating the neighbourhood myself...

Hehe.

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

So long as Brinn keeps an eye on her sister.... And keeps those trouble-making cousins of hers away.

Speaking about me, eh?
Mom!! Aunt Roa is being nasty!

Originally Posted by Macalaure

What if a gifted is unscried by the EW? Does the person scried by the GW (if not evil) automatically become the new gifted even when his roster was full when he scried, or is "unscried" treated the same way as "killed" in this regard?

In the first DW there was

Order of Night Activities:
1. Evil wizard picks whom to curse.
2. Good wizard pickes whom to scry.
3. Affected players are informed of results of #1 & #2 (if both wizards pick same villager, this phase gets longer but is completed before the next phase begins).

and if the same were to apply to here, the one the GW picked would become a new gifted immediately.
Yet I don't really know what to think of it. I mean, if the GW has her roster full and can't scry a new gifted that night, she can partly replace the lost one herself (by working as a seer or whatever her ability was). Therefore it might be fairer if the GW got to scry a new one only the following night. What do you others think?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

if the GW has her roster full and can't scry a new gifted that night, she can partly replace the lost one herself (by working as a seer or whatever her ability was). Therefore it might be fairer if the GW got to scry a new one only the following night. What do you others think?

I think we discussed this already...

But any issue that is unclear should be clarified.

There will be no immediate "replacements". If a gifted dies during the Night the GW can scry her roster full the next Night the earliest.

First of all there is no basic difference between the two options as the gifteds only work at Nights with special powers (and if the gift can be reassigned in the beginning of the next Night then there is no loss from the GW's viewpoint as the new gifted is fully operational that Night).

Secondly when scrying her roster full the GW is after the EW eg. trying to find out who she is. That is not automatically the same person she would like to have as her gifted so we should leave the choices to the GW and not force them upon her.



I'd like to see one or two players more (30 would be just great!). Rune and Mith are busy as well as Oddwen. Firefoot has not answered my call.

Then there were both Holby and Zali who said they were interested in joining the game earlier but of whom I have heard nothing since. If someone of you has more direct contacts with them please ask what is their situation.

If you know of anyone not yet playing feel free to invite them in the game. We still have two days before the game starts!

And don't get me wrong: I'm quite happy with the size of the village. Thirty would just be magnificient and a bit tougher game.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I think we discussed this already...

Then I just seemingly missed the conclusion reached.

I asked Groin and Sixth but both are busy. Sixth said though that he might like to play in the next game, so whoever mods it can keep him in mind.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Then I just seemingly missed the conclusion reached.

I think the arguments behind that conclusion were never made this open though, so it was good the issue arised anyway.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Concerning Legate's question: yes I think it would be fair for the gifteds to know who they have actually targeted. I was a wolf myself in the first DW and being totally in the darkness was a bit annoying. Given that information the gifted might at least speculate herself what is going on. So unless anyone strongly objects this with good reasons I'd like the gifteds (and wolves) to know what the wizards final decision was.

About the modfire then. If someone doesn't post anything on two Days in a row she will be modfired eg. removed from the game. I don't know whether you consider this a light or strong version of it but to me it looks like not playing and thence getting removed.

All okay.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

*giggles and casts a sideway glance to Aganzir*

Originally Posted by Aganzir

*giggles and casts a sideway glance at Lommy*
Let's just hope that the lean abhorred monster won't take sally to be his paramour... But a pity that our ww got him to dislike the story this much.

I really have no idea what these two are talking about...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I asked Isabell. Waiting on an answer...

[THE Ka]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Only the fact that I haven't had too much time to play the Sims recently helps me to resist the temptation to create a Sims neighbourhood for this.

Same here indeed, but mostly because I was unsure about guessing everyone's physical appearance and insulting someone by accident.

Though, I'm a bit afraid what you'd do to my sim after the last WW...

I'm racking my head of who to invite, but everyone I know for the most part has already been asked. Such a small world...

~ Ka

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

There will be no immediate "replacements". If a gifted dies during the Night the GW can scry her roster full the next Night the earliest.

But if a gifted is turned into an ordo by the EW, then that gifted did not actually die.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

First of all there is no basic difference between the two options as the gifteds only work at Nights with special powers (and if the gift can be reassigned in the beginning of the next Night then there is no loss from the GW's viewpoint as the new gifted is fully operational that Night).

You lost me. Sure, if a gifted is killed, then by the nightly order, the gift of that individual already took effect, so there's no issue there. But if a gifted is "ordo-ed" by the EW, that gift is lost to the good team for this particular night (because the scry takes place before the abilities of the gifted). It is only reassigned and fully operational the next night.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Secondly when scrying her roster full the GW is after the EW eg. trying to find out who she is. That is not automatically the same person she would like to have as her gifted so we should leave the choices to the GW and not force them upon her.

That's true. The question is what is worse to the GW and whether we want him to have this disadvantage to the EW (whose minions are immediately replaced). There would, of course, also be the possibility to ask the GW what he wants, or to let him give his decision on this matter beforehand each time.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I think the arguments behind that conclusion were never made this open though, so it was good the issue arised anyway.

At your service.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

The question is what is worse to the GW and whether we want him to have this disadvantage to the EW (whose minions are immediately replaced).

I just want to remind you that there is a greater risk to the EW than simply being down a wolf if the GW scries one. The scried wolf immediately changes teams, and all the info that they have goes with them. The absolute worst risk that the GW faces is a lost dream if the seer is turned, a role which the GW is already filling at that point. When the gifted roster is full, the good team has two seers. They don't need automatic respawns to balance the game.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

I just want to remind you that there is a greater risk to the EW than simply being down a wolf if the GW scries one. The scried wolf immediately changes teams, and all the info that they have goes with them. The absolute worst risk that the GW faces is a lost dream if the seer is turned, a role which the GW is already filling at that point. When the gifted roster is full, the good team has two seers. They don't need automatic respawns to balance the game.

That's a fair point, though of course the knowledge of each individual wolf will probably be kept very limited by the EW.

I'm just concerned about the unbalance that seemed to exist in the previous DW, so I was looking for possible disadvantages for the good team. They lose a gift, while the "gifts" of the evil team (# of kills) is not impaired in the equivalent situation. Sure, the evil team loses a member immediately when he's scried, but in turn the size of the team is not limited.

I'm sorry if I appear picky about this point.

[Thinlómien]

Hmmm... I tried to lure Jenny to talk with me on Facebook so that I could invite her later, but she never replied... I think I'll go to spam TORE and the previous GW Gurth. Wish me good luck.

[Durelin]

I pestered Kuru, but he's in the midst of moving.

Yeah, I miss TORE and Gurthang!

And what happened to Gil-galad?

I imagine Boro has been pestered?

[Eönwë]

Rikae, can I be your apprentice? (or whatever you call the equivalent thing for a lumberjack).

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by THE Ka

Though, I'm a bit afraid what you'd do to my sim after the last WW...

Thanks for reminding, now I just must find the time.

Has anyone asked Fea?

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I'm just concerned about the unbalance that seemed to exist in the previous DW, so I was looking for possible disadvantages for the good team. They lose a gift, while the "gifts" of the evil team (# of kills) is not impaired in the equivalent situation. Sure, the evil team loses a member immediately when he's scried, but in turn the size of the team is not limited.

The last game wasn't really unbalanced. The only disadvantage that Gurthang, the previous GW, complained about was the difficulty of communication, which has already been solved. My only complaint was what happened with the hunter, which has again been solved. LMP put a lot of work into balancing the last game, and he did a pretty good job. Everyone seems so concerned about balancing the game, but we all seem to have forgotten LMP's work. We are getting dangerously close to Unbalancing the game in favor of the good side.

Look, if the GW can just instantly replace his gifted, then what would be the point of the wolves trying to kill them? The goal of each Wizard is to bolster their own team while limiting the other. Wolves are not aiming for innocents, they're aiming for gifted. You can't take that away from them, or you heavily unbalance the game in favor of the Good Team. If a seer dream happens EVEN THOUGH the wolves manage to kill the seer, can you really call that fair?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Roa

If a seer dream happens EVEN THOUGH the wolves manage to kill the seer, can you really call that fair?

This discussion is not a new one. There was a lot of talk whether the first DW was balanced or not. But I do think we have corrected the few main issues (the GW will get all three gifteds from the start + both teams can communicate only during the Nights) and I do share Roa's fear of "balancing" it too much.

But that exact ruling I would like to keep. There is a clear and certain order how things happen during the Night and thence as the seer's dream is before the wolves will kill anyone the dream will be revealed to the GW even if the seer dies that Night.

About questions concerning invitations:

Fea has been sent an invitation - a long ago it was but still. There has been no answer - which holds true for Holby, Naria and Anguirel as well.

Boro had to decline because of RL busyness.

Spm and tgwbs have not visited the 'Downs since I've sent them an invitation so I wouldn't count on them either.

I have just sent a PM to both Zali and Holby who both have declared their interest in playing this game earlier.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Roa

Look, if the GW can just instantly replace his gifted, then what would be the point of the wolves trying to kill them? The goal of each Wizard is to bolster their own team while limiting the other. Wolves are not aiming for innocents, they're aiming for gifted. You can't take that away from them, or you heavily unbalance the game in favor of the Good Team. If a seer dream happens EVEN THOUGH the wolves manage to kill the seer, can you really call that fair?

I'm not talking about the wolf-kills at all. As Nogrod said, the rules are clear on that, whether they're fair or not is another thing. My original question was what happens if a gifted is taken away from the good team by the scry of the EW (i.e. doesn't die). I guess "no immediate" regifting counts in both cases, dying and not dying. I didn't mean to overbalance things either.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

There has been no answer - which holds true for Holby, Naria and Anguirel as well.

Spm and tgwbs have not visited the 'Downs since I've sent them an invitation so I wouldn't count on them either.

I mentioned the game to tgwbs awhile ago, but he replied he's still in school and will remain fairly busy throughout the summer. As for Anguirel, since he's also at Oxford I can only assume he's still in school as well...and getting a glimpse at his crazy schedule, I can only guess he won't be available.

I mentioned DW in a message to Formy, but he hasn't replied yet. Hmm...has anyone tried Sleepy Ranger and Farael? Or how about Elf-Warrior and Menel? Well, I know I can pester at least half of these guys via Facebook...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Hmm...has anyone tried Sleepy Ranger and Farael? Or how about Elf-Warrior and Menel? Well, I know I can pester at least half of these guys via Facebook...

Just do it!