WWXLV: The Fellowship of Saruman

[Groin Redbeard]

"Why all this silence?" Dain asked, "Do you still morn for Gildor back in Moria? I pray that you don't, rather you should rejoice and thank the Valar that such an elf has lived. His words yesterDay were not in vain, and we can still pick up the peices from were he left off."

Dain was recounting the words of the fellowship yesterDay from one of his companions when he came across the words of master Bombadil.

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

"But at least one thing I will tell you if I'm not around toMorrow. And that is why I have not talked about our master dwarf until now. He was over-eager to support me and to trust my words and overjoyed to hear me talk on the first Day - and on the second as well. It was puzzling but I thought he might have been the seer who had had a dream on the Night before and knew I am innocent. A little clumsy seer - or overenthusiastic to press his point - but anyhow. Now he has turned his mind a full round as it starts to look possible that I might indeed be voted off. And how come he starts the same thing with master Gildor here affirming everything he says so as to be in good terms and not gather suspicion?

"Master Bombadil," Dain roared looking up suddenly at Tom with a look that would have made lesser men shrink. "I must say that I am indeed surprised at you! You wait until after I have left and voted against you to accuse me, rather than speaking when I was there to defend myself! Did you think that you could sway the vote against while I was gone, then let me ask you this: why haven't you brought it up before? Indeed it was as I said yesterDay before I left, you go after the ones who will not defend themselves, or in this case cannot defend themselves." Dain was mad with rage

"You ask me why I was overjoyed to here you and Gildor speak on many occasions, have I not expressed my opinion of Gildor being the wisest of our company? Would it not be suspicious for me to doubt his and your words? I think that you would have to accuse almost everyone of the sin of trusting Gildor's words, but unlike the rest, when I make a decision I stick with it!"

EDIT: X'd with Tom Bombadil and Theodred

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Daín

"I must say that I am indeed surprised at you! You wait until after I have left and voted against you to accuse me, rather than speaking when I was there to defend myself! Did you think that you could sway the vote against while I was gone, then let me ask you this: why haven't you brought it up before? Indeed it was as I said yesterDay before I left, you go after the ones who will not defend themselves, or in this case cannot defend themselves."

Tom heard the raging dwarf and walked to meet him.

"My good dwarf. You can't expect everyone to wait for the person they suspect to come back to the others to voice their suspicions. Otherwise those not being around for the most of the time could never be suspected. You should speak when you come to think about things.

And I think I told you all already why I didn't bring that up earlier. As I thought you might be our seer it would have been most foolish to voice that aloud and thence help the traitors to pick their most wanted victim.

I go for those who I find suspicious. And so should everyone else do."

Tom nodded to the dwarf courtially and looked at him to the eye. "But what comes to the matter of trusting master Gildor or me earlier, I'd not say it was just a pointing out of reliability but a try to rub someone right so that he would not suspect you as it feels good to be praised... In this kind of situation one can't afford blind trust but only reasoned ones and even those one should take with a pinch of salt."

EDIT: X'd with Daín again

[Nogrod]

Let's see what our dear dwarf had to say about the traitor Halbarad:

Day1

After lord Gildor managed to suspect the two...

Originally Posted by post #40

Although I do not find Gildor's words to be of an evil nature, I do wish that she would provide deeper incite than just a gut feeling of dread of the ranger Halbarad and I.

Here Halbarad was leading in the votes...

Originally Posted by post #81

All this talk about lynching Halbarad is nonesense if you ask me. He is quite yes, but I still have to see some proven evidence against him. All we have now are a few gut feelings, this is no for any man to die: lynched on a bad feeling!

Day2

After Lobelia, Gildor and Eomer had suspected Halbarad...

Originally Posted by Post #136

Halbarad, he's a very quite figure, but has spoken enough for me to have an opinion of him. He's on my list of suspicious characters, but he is at the bottom of it. His defence is an fair one and indeed if he is a traiter than he is a sloppy one.

Day3
After there had ben some new suspicions on Halbarad and I had brought him openly as my choice (alongside Uglúk)...

Originally Posted by post #199

Halbarad, he is sloppy and his words are often taken out of context, but he always comes back with a satisfying response, but not entirely satisfying.

"Let those formulations and situation talk for themselves."


He has clearly avoided speaking of Radagast, although it's interesting to notice that he begins quite early with this...

Originally Posted by post #40

I wish that Gandalf would speak, we need his say in the matter, but we have Galadriel and Radagast. Galadriel, my fair lady, you give advice only when spoken to and this is disturbing.

which kind of leaves him nicely the one to be trusted.

After that he only says once he doesn't have an opinion about him yet (#136) and afterwards announces he hadn't the slightest that Radagast was a traitor.

It's also interesting to see that he has casted the first vote to both those innocents who had been voted out this far (on Day1 to Gandalf and on Day2 to Lobelia - and he casted the first vote to myself on Day3 and almost made it once again...) so he's clearly looking around and making safe votes eg. voting those who have gained suspicion and making his votes early enough so that he can suspect others of bandwaggoning.

I hold this most suspicious indeed but I will a bit later look at Uglúk and Theodred as well so this is not my final word but those two need to turn out quite ugly if I were to change my mind."

EDIT: Don't call for discussion if you're not ready to have it yourself master dwarf... you knew I was around but still decided to just go away while implying it's the others who don't wish to discuss...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

When Galadriel returned again she asked for those still remaining with the group to follow her to a more suitable place for debate, as they walked Galadriel said to the people following. “Worry not for those who are not with us, they will be send for” She now lead them to a mighty tree. “We are going up there she said”. They all looked up the tree but could see no way of getting up there and so turned to Galadriel, but she was not to be seen. The fellowship felt uneasy about her mystical disappearance, but before too long an young (relatively) elf came up to them and showed them the way to the great talan where the hall of Galadriel stood, inside they that seats and food had been prepared for them. Galadriel her self was also there and she asked them to sit “I found this place more fitting for our last debate in Lothlorien and let me start it while you all eat”

“Firstly I will speak of Iarwain as I have done so many times before: Just before the death of Halbarad he constantly changed his opinion on me, which seemed a bit odd and convinced me I had made the right choise. The Halbarad turned out to be a traitor and that changed everything, so I have to look at Iarwain’s final acts again. When it looked like he might get lynched he voted for Halbarad, this seems to be an innocent act. . .why not go for a person he knew innocent? As I said it looks innocent. . .but of course this could be a carefully planned scheme for the one who survived to look innocent, but why would Halbarad then vote for me that is the thing that throws me off. Anyways I think I shall give Iarwain the benefit of the doubt today.

What of Ugluk? The orc he has made very little sence for a long time now and I have been suspicious of him ever since he supported Gildor’s analysis without concluding anything. Since that he has ignored my words completely and continued in the same manner, I would not mind sending him home to the mountains!

I see the tide is turning on our dear Dwarven Lord and I can understand the accusations against him, yet I am a bit reluctant to vote for his departure. He does seem to take the easy road at times, but for some reason I find his way of reasoning appealing and so I would rather put my vote on the orc.”

[Nogrod]

"Is it the awe and wonder of this place or what makes the others this quiet?" Tom opened his mouth after seeing no one else would do it.

"How much you wonder... or fear this place", he glanced at Daín, Uglúk and Theodred, "do not let it seal your lips."

He then rose up from the seat he had been given and started to walk around slowly fallen into his thoughts reflecting what lady Galadriel had said.

"I see you are worried about the Uruk. And I do not blame you for it, at least in here. It has been an act of generosity from your race to let him enter in the first place. And I can see it that as a product of art he hates all those born free and why that would give us the reason to suspect him. And he hasn't been the most co-operative member of our fellowship either. But what I fear is that it's his nature to be monomaniac like that and to be openly aggressive when he thinks he has gotten a target and not being able to widen his scope. It's sad but maybe the explanation to his behaviour.

I will fall back to my memories trying to look what he has actually done - like I will try to retract the steps of this young Théodred before it's time to make decisions. We can end this treachery here, remember. And at the moment I think a treacherous Uglúk would have been smoother."

Tom bowed to the lady and lord Celeborn and then retreated back to his seat.

[Nogrod]

"What first catches my eye in Uglúk is that early on our first Day of travel he made a speech where he discussed generalities and criticised me of speaking lots of nonsense and nothing serious, like not talking about the traitors among us - which I indeed find a bit unfair accusation looking back at how little had been said that far then. But anyway. He then ends his speech with this totally separate sentence:

Originally Posted by Uglúk #21

I also see that Radagast has yet to comment on the traitors among us.

and that was only little after a lengthy speech by Radagast and where he had openly suspected me of not talking about the traitors. Now were they in cahoots together this kind of pointing out would be totally unnecessary and unwanted not the least because Radagast's clear tactics seemed to be not suspecting anyone. And as there had been no major suspicions either it would be reckless indeed.

With the same breath I admit that Radagast tended to speak a lot in favor of him that first Day especially - like he was trying to shelter him from any attacks that would have been hurled towards him because of his race. It was easy for him as he could make an appeal to Saruman's judgement and pretty sneaky if they were traitors together.

When the second Day of talking started he quite justifiedly criticizes myself and Gildor for voting Gandalf even if we knew him well enough - well not taking account that he actually behaved much more weirdly and irresponsaibly we have ever seen him act. But then he catches my eye once again for adding to that:

Originally Posted by Uglúk #95

Halbarad does seem quite the suspicious one, but then again, he's fairly new to this sort of thing and bound to make mistakes. I'm not letting him out of my sight at all, but he's not at the top of my list either.

which is exactly the round about way of discussing a fellow... or then he just got carried away with the way he could spot the styles of some of us in the fellowship?

After starting his obsession on Elrohir's vote and voting for me because my vote on Gandalf he then starts the third Day with a theory of myself and Radagast as mates - where my suspicion of Radagast was a way to signal to him to start behaving less supiciously. It remains to be seen what his reasoning to it was as it was then a few moments before the deadline and basically no one had openly suspectet the wizard who then died in the hands of mighty Eomer. He then continues with his questioning of Elrohir and then says this about Halbarad:

Originally Posted by Uglúk #182

And Halbarad, I'm really not sure I can honestly keep letting you off the hook for this long.

which again looks like a traitor feeling a need to address the case of the other but with reluctance - and after all that promise didn't lead anywhere...

For he then next announces that he doesn't suspect Halbarad anymore and will concentrate on me. But his "cases" keep being as sham as you can see:

Originally Posted by Uglúk #192

Interestingly, Tom Bombadil called Halbarad suspicious for not contributing much to the discussion. This was after the Ranger had already made the point that Tom's singing could be used to confuse discussion. He's been making arguments, so how is he not contributing to the discussion?

which I find faulty indeed as I couldn't consider Halbarad's thought an argument any more than our lady Galadriel speaking in a certain tone that is hers - or the young Eomer speaking the way he does. I sing because I am Bombadil and they speak as they do because of who they are. Anyone can hide behind anything: a role, a habit, a principle... And btw. I think I actually defended Halbarad a few times on the first Days just because he was doing something - unlike some others!

After speculating with Radagast's words, reminded to us by Gildor, he then votes for me once again.

ToDay he has seconded himself in saying that he wouldn't put it past to me to vote for my fellow (Halbarad); seconding because he said the earlier Day that he wouldn't put it past me that I could suspect my fellow (Radagast). So whatever the information, whatever happens he will stick to suspecting me. And I think it a bit too bold - unless we say that sticking to a principle is tactics and pointing it out is an argument. It might well be?

Well, I don't know. Looking back at the Uruk made me a bit more weary of him as I had just thought he was only too bold but the way he spoke about Halbarad and also how Radagast treated him and how fabricated his points on me were kind of raise my alarms once again.

Hard to say."

[Groin Redbeard]

Dain walked along quietly listening to the scrutenizing words of Tom Bombadil. He had not minded it, for lately he had been thinking of his people back at Esgaroth. The coming of the messenger of Mordor had been growing in his mind. Soon war would be coming from Mordor to his people, and he now wished that he could be there to make a last stand with his kinsfolk.

"Master Bombadil," Dain said tiredly, "It is not in fear that I do not speak for the wood of Lorien is beautiful, as far as woods go. I will not fight your arguments, for my mind is bent on other matters, but never the less I do not like your pompious arrogant way of accusing and insulting me! You my good man go after those who have done you wrong whether it be an honost mistake or not, and favor those who favor you."

Originally Posted by post 230

If I go away don't send Halbarad away. His vote showed it...

Dain drew himself up to his full height and looked Tom Bombadil straight in the eye. "If you send me away I will not fight you, and if I stay I will do my duty. Do not let the Ring cloud your mind, if indeed you can think of anything else other than picking dafadillies!"