Lindon

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Originally Posted by The Might

You seem to have forgotteon one key aspect while making your first assumption - the Elendil-stone was never kept at Mithlond, but in the Tower of Elostirion, tallest of the 3 White Towers that were build by Gil-Galad for Elendil. These towers were only guarded by the Elves.

This is developing into a very speculative argument but what the heck...

I still believe that Mithlond would have been a walled and well protected place. I said the palantir would be a reason alone to guard the city. There are many other reasons too. Like I mentioned earlier, Cirdan would have learnt the hard way not to put trust in a lasting peace. If seriously threatened by a hostile army, the palantir could also quickly be relocated to the Havens if required.

As far as Gondor and the Hobbits are concerned I still must strongly disagree. Firstly about the Hobbits, I believe that this quote from "Concerning Hobbits" should prove most informative:

I actually think the quote is more supportive of my point of view than of yours.

Indeed, few Hobbits had ever seen or sailed upon the Sea, and fewer still had ever returned to report it.

So some had seen the sea and lived to tell the tale after all...

And as the days of the Shire lengthened they spoke less and less with the Elves, and grew afraid of them, and distrustful of those that had dealings with them

Apparently some spoke with the elves as well, although they were not many.

As such, there is little doubt in my mind that Hobbits had almost nothing to do with the Elves of Lindon

This I agree with. They had almost nothing to do with the elves of Lindon. I don't think there ever was any trade between Lindon and the Shire. After all, what did the Hobbits have that the elves needed? But every now and then a crazy Took or two must have made their way into Lindon, if they weren't denied entry.

I also agree that the contacts between Lindon and Gondor must have been minimal or non-existant towards the end of the third age. However, there certainly was a time when the Elves did have dealings with the men of Arnor and to some degree Gondor..

[The Might]

As you will notice in my first post here I fully agree that it would be walled and well protected, only pointed out that the reasoning with the palantir is not working. But indeed, there were many other reasons for this.

Ah yes, it seems I have misunderstood your point. I now noticed you were also speaking of certain exceptions and not of a rule and so I must apologize, I thought you had some stronger contact in mind.

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^No appologies needed.

When you try to imagine how life in Lindon (or in any other elven society) must have been a problem to my mind is the elevated and idealised way in which Tolkien portrayed his elves.

I think it's fair to presume that Lindon was an agrarian society where the sea also had an important place in people's every day life. But life in such a society would require a lot of back-breaking labour. Can you imagine the fishermen returning with their catch every morning, after battling hard winds and rough waters out in the unforgiving ocean? How could they still would be considered the fair people after thousands of salt-stained years? And can you picture the elven maidens gutting fish on the piers, with blood, slime and scales all over their pretty little fingers? Or the lumberjacks, pushing their oxen hard to pull carts loaded with trunks of great oaktrees home? It's hard to do, isn't it. You'd rather picture them singing a song to fill their nets with fish or something like that.

[The Might]

Of course, of course... still, I guess this is just a misconception.
Also, you don't really think that the Silvan Elves feasting in Mirkwood in The Hobbit actually had to do much to get all that organized, it just all probably magically popped out of the earth.
Perhaps Elves would have an easier time with daily chores in the household because they do possess powers that Men lack and so could get done with all the work without so much effort, but still it wasn't as easy as many think.

What I think would even be harder would be to imagine Elves doing anything in Aman. I mean I picture Ingwe feasting and sleeping for thousands of years.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by skip spence

When you try to imagine how life in Lindon (or in any other elven society) must have been a problem to my mind is the elevated and idealised way in which Tolkien portrayed his elves.

One thing to remember is that LotR is told from the hobbit point of view and the hobbits, particularly Sam and Frodo, are especially entranced with elves. It is part of a clash of cultures, except that it isn't a clash so much as a wide-eyed discovery of astonishing possibilities that neither hobbit had ever thought of or experienced previously. As Sam says once Frodo has awakened in the Last Homely House east of the Sea, "Always a bit more to discover, and no knowing what you'll find round a corner." ("Many Meetings")

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Yeah I suppose the elves do scrub the floor or wash the dishes just like you and me. Perhaps they even use the bathroom.

It's kinda of like your mum and dad having sex I suppose. Evidently they do it (or have done it) from time to time but you just don't want to think about it that much. Or at all.

[The Might]

I think of it as immaculate conception, LOL.