Do Balrogs Have Wings?

[HerenIstarion]

Originally Posted by skip spence

That's a very creative interpretation of my post

Mea culpa, confiteor. Maybe I tend to see depths below surfaces where none have been intended. Still

I'm not trying to diminish it's size. Where have I said anything like that?

Few posts up . Consider:

If they were actual physical wings this would imply the Balrog was immensly tall

If my logic be correct, this statement in itself implies its reverse that would be, roughly, as follows: 'if they were not actual physical wings, this would imply the Balrog was diminutively short'

Of course, I may have been taking it a bit too far, but your own post did not contain an indicator as to what definition opposed to immensely tall would you have stopped at yourself, so the scale of immensely tall - diminutively short is open to be used according to my liking.

And if you really can't follow my train of thought, you too must have rather poor English reading skills. Seriously.

That may well be the case. Yet, within this sentence you claim that your position reflects the truth (or is closer to the truth) not because it is based on fact, but because your perception ability is of superior quality. Huh?

As I've mentioned earlier, I believe [mark the verb used] Balrogs were not winged. Still, your uncompromising (to say the least) manner, merciful Sir (M'am?) forces me to argue with you over an issue we, apparently, agree upon

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Nerwen, you must have the wrong letter there, at least all letter 144 says about Balrogs is as follows:

The Balrog is a survivor from the Silmarillion and the legends of the First Age. So is Shelob. The Balrogs, of whom the whips were the chief weapons, were primeval spirits of destroying fire, chief servants of the primeval Dark Power of the First Age. They were supposed to have been all destroyed in the overthrow of Thangorodrim, his fortress in the North. But it is here found (there is usually a hang-over especially of evil from one age to another) that one had escaped and taken refuge under the mountains of Hithaeglin (the Misty Mountains). It is observable that only the Elf knows what the thing is – and doubtless Gandalf.

As far as I'm concernend, letters don't contain any further mention of Balrogs but one as follows:

The Balrog never speaks or makes any vocal sound at all. Above all he does not laugh or sneer. .... Z may think that he knows more about Balrogs than I do

Letter 210

Can't remember male/female wings/fireflies concept either, would be glad to be directed

[Nerwen]

Sorry, I meant Letter #134.

The firefly reference is from the second section of "Annals of Aman" (Morgoth's Ring):

And in Utumno he wrought from the creeping and flying insects of Yavanna the race of demons whom the Elves after named the Balrogs. And they were like unto fireflies, though much greater; those that were male among them had wings, but those that were female had not.

[HerenIstarion]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Sorry, I meant Letter #134.

I'm afraid not

134 From a letter to Rayner Unwin 29 August 1952

I am at last turning to my own affairs. The situation is this: I am anxious to publish The Lord of the Rings as soon as possible. I believe it to be a great (though not flawless) work. Let other things follow as they may. But as the expense of typing proved prohibitive, I had to do it all myself, and there is only one (more or less) fair copy in existence. I dare not consign that to the post, and in any case I am now going to devote some days to correcting it finally. For this purpose, I am retiring tomorrow from the noise and stench of Holywell to my son's cottage on Chiltern-top while he is away with his children.1.... I shall return on September 10th. After that I could call with my burden at Museum Street2 on some date convenient to you .... or, if that is not asking too much, you could call on me (as you so kindly suggest might be possible). ....
I have recently made some tape-recordings of pans of the Hobbit and The Lord (notably the Gollum-passages and some pieces of 'Elvish') and was much surprised to discover their effectiveness as recitations, and (if I may say so) my own effectiveness as a narrator, I do a very pretty Gollum and Treebeard. Could not the BBC be interested? The tape-reel is in the possession of George Sayer (English Master at Malvern) and I am sure he would forward it for your or anyone else's trial. It was unrehearsed and impromptu and could be improved.3
I should love to come to London, if only for the purpose of seeing you and meeting your wife. But I am cutting even the 'seventh International Congress of Linguists' (Sept 1), of which I am an official – time is so miserably short, and I am tired. I have on my plate not only the 'great works', but the overdue professional work I was finishing up at Cambridge (edition of the Ancrene Wisse); the W. P. Ker lecture at Glasgow; Sir Gawain; and new lectures! But your continued interest cheers me. I have a constant 'fan-mail' from all over the English-speaking world for 'more' – curiously enough often for 'more about the Necromancer', which the Lord certainly fulfils.

The firefly reference is from the second section of "Annals of Aman" (Morgoth's Ring

Thanks

Still can't seem able to locate it, will require a little bit of time I guess

[Nerwen]

Hang on, maybe I'm thinking of Letter #143.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Nerwen maybe wasn't evil in the beginning, but she obviously is now. You made it up, confess! I am not a HoME expert, but there are surely many around here, and I'd really wonder if such an argument as you quote existed, that it would not have been quoted here, even though if it were, surely there will be a debate whether it is or is not canonical.

[skip spence]

^Yes, I suspect that HerenIstarion must have misinterpreted Nerwen's post slightly, despite all his eloquence and masterful command of the English language, .

[Nerwen]

Letter #243 also contains information about Balrog reproduction. Apparently a Balrog is born every minute.

[skip spence]

There's a sucker born every minute, PT Barnum once said. I wasn't aware he was talking about Balrogs.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by HerenIstarion

If my logic be correct, this statement in itself implies its reverse that would be, roughly, as follows: 'if they were not actual physical wings, this would imply the Balrog was diminutively short' Of course, I may have been taking it a bit too far, but your own post did not contain an indicator as to what definition opposed to immensely tall would you have stopped at yourself, so the scale of immensely tall - diminutively short is open to be used according to my liking.

Once again your deduction astounds me. Let me see if I understand your point of view: You're saying that since my statement the Balrog wasn't immensly tall is possible to interpret as the Balrog was diminutively short you have the freedom to do so? And also that you are forced to argue with me as my position in this current debate is too uncompromising?

You are indeed free to come up with wild interpretations of what I'm writing to make a forced argument but this isn't very constructive, nor does it make you look very clever. Do you know the opposite of clever? Use the same logic as before and see what comes up.