Hurin and despair

[Kuruharan]

Alas, I'm afraid that I was misunderstood.

First, I can't see anything in any of the writings which imply that Morgoth could have ANY concept of Earendel. How could he possibly?

I did not say that Morgoth was directly aware of Earendil.

I said that Tolkien said that Morgoth believed that ruin would come to him from Turgon, as in fact it did. That ruin happened to take the form of Earendil. I initially rendered this in slightly different terms, but then I provided my backing for it.

I still haven't seen ANY evidence that Morgoth was TRULY afraid of his oponents at this time.

Again I quote the man himself...

...Morgoth feared Turgon...
p. 240

That is a flat statement of fact in the context of the story. You may disagree with it to your heart's content, but you will have to take the matter up with Tolkien, he wrote the story.

If he was he would have gone on torturing Hurin till he was dead or till he gave up the information Morgoth wanted.

That is your interpretation of the circumstances, which tends to go against certain statements actually made in the book.

Human's are human, whatever the situation, or whatever the time period they live in. Extended torture creates psychological as well as physical damage.

Yes, but this is not our world.

Morgoth also had magic...

An example of one of the ways in which Middle Earth is not our world.

There are some things that have to be accepted in the context of the story. It is part of the suspension of disbelief.

Sorry, I read/understand the story differently from the rest of you. I understand Morgoth's motives differently. I'm not saying my way is right - in fact all I've really been doing is putting forward my own view.

You can, and will, believe whatever you wish. However, judging from some of the things that you have said, there were certain aspects of the text that you had given insufficient attention too. I am trying to point out some of them and explain some of the ramifications of these passages so that you can have a more complete understanding of the story.

Davem, don't apologise! It wouldn't be such an interesting debate if we all agreed, would it?

Especially not on fun threads like this where not many of us have agreed on much of anything.

[ May 21, 2003: Message edited by: Kuruharan ]