And directing The Hobbit...perhaps!?

[Sauron the White]

davem... I suspect you are in for a great disappointment if your wants for HOBBIT include talking animals, the songs, and a more fairytale feeling to it all. I suspect we will see something that is far more consistent with the first three Middle-earth movies.

There are reports right now that New Line wants as much continuity in terms of what is on the screen as they can get between these two films and the first three which did so well in so many ways. They want to strike box office gold again... an again. The best way they feel they can do that is to replicate as much as they can from the formula used for the LOTR films. That means Peter Jackson, WETA, Howard Shore and many other elements that show up on screen giving the ticket buyers a feeling of familiarity.

This is a film franchise now, like it or not. Many important decisions are being made on the basis on increasing the bottom line. As we all know, the film business is, after all, a business. And the main business of business is making money. If they are going to invest some $150 million US dollars in each of these two movies, you can bet they want to see that number multiplied at least five times, maybe more.

I did see the stage production - when it debuted in Toronto - and would give it a four on a scale of ten. I do not know what pictures you did see, but the costumes, just like the entire production - were very uneven with flashes of brilliance mixed in among the outright ridiculous. Some of the costumes in the big song and dance number in Bree looked right out of the Disney DAVY CROCKETT movie complete with coonskin caps. On the other hand, Galadriel was stunning. Somebody had the bright idea to make Saruman look like Otto Preminger in STALAG 17 complete with floor length black leather coat. Aragorn had these charcoal marks under his eyes like American football players use. They called this a musical but not one musical number was memorable or something you wanted to sing as you left the theater. And about half of it was that Cirque Soliel wailing - of which I am not the biggest fan.

The most telling thing about the play happened when it was over. Almost the entire crowd was there because they were LOTR fans. We will not debate for the moment where and from what medium that came from. I, and I assume they, wanted to like the play. When the play ended, there was applause which can only be described as polite. There were no encores, no curtain calls, none of the usual stuff. The appluase laster about one minute and then people filed out. The reaction was one of indifferent mediocrity.

I have read where the London production is being much more well received. Perhaps they made some changes for the better. Or perhaps its a different crowd.

The Hobbit is a wonderful work in its own right, & shouldn't be put in the service of another work. If there's to be a 'model' for a Hobbit movie it should be The Wizard of Oz meets Pan's Labyrinth, not Jackson's LotR.

I do think you have something there. I would not be unhappy if that was the road they decided to travel down. We will have to wait and see. I suspect what we will see is something a bit between what you describe and Jacksons LOTR films. Time will tell.

Adding something here: you mention songs in HOBBIT and the tone of WIZARD OF OZ. Lets take one of the songs from HOBBIT as written by JRRT. Chapter VI - the dwarves and Bilbo and Gandalf are up in the trees surrounded by goblins and wargs. The goblins then sing the song which begins with the line
Fifteen birds in five fir-trees,
their feathers were fanned in a fiery breeze!
and it goes on.

There are lots of ways this could be presented including a straight song like "Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead" from Oz. Or another way would be to have various golbins sout different lines of it as taunts toward the treed prisoners. It comes off as more of a real taunt than a singsong broadway tune that stops the movie and everybody says "what a cute song those ugly orcs are singing". That is how I would do it .... as if that counts for anything.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

There are reports right now that New Line wants as much continuity in terms of what is on the screen as they can get between these two films and the first three which did so well in so many ways. They want to strike box office gold again... an again. The best way they feel they can do that is to replicate as much as they can from the formula used for the LOTR films. That means Peter Jackson, WETA, Howard Shore and many other elements that show up on screen giving the ticket buyers a feeling of familiarity.

This is a film franchise now, like it or not. Many important decisions are being made on the basis on increasing the bottom line. As we all know, the film business is, after all, a business. And the main business of business is making money. If they are going to invest some $150 million US dollars in each of these two movies, you can bet they want to see that number multiplied at least five times, maybe more.

I don't see the point in hiring a director of Del Toro's quality & then basically telling him to copy Jackson & make a LotR clone. It strikes me that the best way to avoid striking box office gold is to simply repeat what has gone before - its also the best way to kill a franchise stone dead. Fans of the Jackson movies may go to see TH, but if all it is is more of the same then will they want to see a sequel?

And I have to say that, based on previous evidence (& the fluke of the LotR movies apart) the worst thing as far as commercial success is concerned is to give New Line what they want. From what you say New Line are in this purely to make money - & that is the worst approach because it leads to an avoidance of anything 'different' in the sequel as being too 'risky'. I can see this TH movie already - because I've seen the LotR movies. It will look exactly the same, have exactly the same 'feel', same bland dialogue. The more like the LotR movies it is the less reason to see it.

I do wonder how many movies fans really want more of the same, & how many would actually like to see a different vision of M-e? I suspect that if Del Toro was given a free hand he would give us a much more interesting take on Tolkien's work.

Then again, my ideal Hobbit would be an animation, in the style of Tolkien's own illustrations for the book.

[Mithalwen]

I htink they have made radical changes since Saruman was wearing standard issue wizard robes in London and apart from Elrond being a bit too bling - dripping beads that might have come off the Christmas tree the costumes were good. They cut half and hour and went back to the drawing board.

I went on the opening night so yes the audience were probably mainly hard core Tolkien fans but it got a great response - thought he people we talked to in the interval may have been typical in that he was a big fan and she had bought them tickets as a gift. However both were loving it and we reckoned we had already had our money's worth. While it wasn't a classic musical with perhaps only Lothlorian being the "action stops while character sings" type of number, there were certainly a couple of good song and dance tunes and a few of the melodies I can hum even now after one hearing (just seen the CD on Amazon and thinking about it might invest). The puppet Balrog, Nazgul and Shelob were scarier by far than the CGI and the live Gollum far more effective. I so want to go again and several other Downers who have seen it in London have enjoyed it.

There was a play of the Hobbit about 10 years ago - heard it was quite good but no idea how they handled it other than they cut down on the number of dwarves.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

I dearly hope that Jackson is a very hands on producer and plays a pivotal role in the selection of such other talents as
writers....

Oh, God, no!

[Nogrod]

I think you both davem and Sauron the White are mature enough to see that the New Line will not make A Hobbit film to make an artistic avantgarde film or to offer the hard-core fans something they would rejoice in! A Hollywood film-studio would not finance a film by Bergman, Pasolini or Taviani brothers this day - they would not finance a film by Welles or Kubrick either. The days of these real or more challenging movies are just gone because today a movie needs to make money and not to be a good movie. That is sad indeed.

The time of the lowbrow cash-magnets is in. Nice effects, easy drama, non-existant characters if they just look good to the teens (just think of Elijah Wood or Hayden Christensen), black and white arrangements, easy plots not to puzzle anyone not to talk of making one uneasy about her/his everyday life, worldview etc. This is what you will get accept it or not.

Whatever comes from that Hollywood-mill is something standard entertainment PJ managed to turn LotR into. Now seeing he's on charge of the project just verifies any foresights that it will be much of the same.

Yes, the films by PJ looked and sounded great. I have no complaints about that. But the film on the Hobbit will be at best only looking good as they will restrain Del Toro or anyone taking the task with some pretty clear rulings that will appeal to the standard US. teen-audiences who haven't got the slightest of the book but wish to see more of that nice epic their friends liked as well and seeing of which allowed them to be on the edge on those days it was the talk of the day (which will change in two weeks or something)...