Werewolf XLII: The meaning of life forever

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Last post crossed with McCaber. I just felt the need to add on to what I just said, and I know the policy about editing posts in WW threads.

I agree with McCaber somewhat, too. I think it's not a good thing to be too silent, keeping every thought to oneself, but too much talking from one person just serves to muddy the waters and can attract the wrong kind of attention from the direction of the wolves or from that of innocents.

[A Little Green]

A little green man that had just been shoved in cleared his throat, straightened his little green hat, then after pondering on something for a while took it off and stood on it to make himself a dais of sorts. After clearing his throat again, he began a lecture.

"1. My apologies for not turning up sooner. I only decided to join this afternoon and it wasn't until now that I got to post since I had to read the rules, the admin thread, and the game thread itself. And now that I am here, I have nothing to say.

2. Then, some thoughts from what you guys have posted.

2.1.

Originally Posted by Noggins

I might consider voting Legate or Roa toDay on these grounds.

*Diplomacy check: fumble, red alert!*

But I do hope I will find better candidates because both of them would be realassets to us if they are innocents and fighting wars between us as innocents would only play to the hands of the wolves. If we had an actual lynch toDay I'd rather vote for someone not committed to the game though... the loudmouths tend to get caught as the game proggresses as the net of lies they have to weave breaks sooner or later.

*Diplomacy check: not good but getting an inch better*

We need to speak our minds here now and toDay even if it means voicing concerns about people we like to play with.

Is it just my imagination or do I see a contradiction here? When reading the first paragraph of that quote (the thing after the red alert), my first thought was "oh dear, so it's this same old thing, let's vote for the good, fluent, experienced players we personally like to play with". The second statement made me feel slightly better (and slightly less annoyed ).
Overall, I don't quite know what to think about Nogrod. He is taking a leader role, and I am not sure whether I should be alarmed by it or not. Of course, I should lift my famous little green hat (from under my feet, as it happens) for the sake that someone finds so much to say about apparent nonsense. I'm (gut)feeling good about him right now.

2.2.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Brinniel because the way she keeps pushing the unimportance of this day looks like a wolf who doesn't want to risk suspecting her fellows.

Agan, could you clarify your point a little? Why would a wolf do that? The wolves don't know each other yet (if I understood the rules correctly and no big red magic blinded my little green eyes), so why should they be cautious about each other? Of course, if a wolf finds evidence of someone's guilt it's a different question entirely, but I very much doubt that could be achieved on this early a stage.

3.

Originally Posted by Lommy

PS. This systems wants to split my ultralong word, even though it is on one line. Why?

Lommy, well though I have no idea of the reason, it did the same for me with my title. Why on earth, I wonder, when it was no more than 61 letters!"

After his speech, the little green man stepped off his little green hat and put it back on his head, then drew out of his pack a little green apple and started peeling it with a little green chainsaw.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

2.2. Agan, could you clarify your point a little? Why would a wolf do that? The wolves don't know each other yet (if I understood the rules correctly and no big red magic blinded my little green eyes), so why should they be cautious about each other? Of course, if a wolf finds evidence of someone's guilt it's a different question entirely, but I very much doubt that could be achieved on this early a stage.

The wolves don't know who will be their fellows, but surely they don't want to lose any of them (in the trials or later). So the "best" a wolf can do is to try to avoid suspecting people in general - who knows if their suspects really are wolves and lynched because their fellow began suspecting them? Also, it'll be very uncomfortable for a wolf if they suspect other wolves vocally know. What will they do when they learn to know one another? Just change their mind: "I have reconsidered this and am sure that my previous top suspect is actually innocent."

So that's why I think it's a nice tactic for a lone wolf to downplay the importance of this day, and that's why I think everyone should speak and suspect. I don't believe that all wolves are doing that (or that all who do that are wolves), but I can't see it being anything but useful if we discuss as much as possible now. Does it make more sense now?

Originally Posted by Shasta

I suppose that means they'll be in the arena together on the seventh day?

Probably so. And I guess it's safe to say even now that one of them is a wolf.

Originally Posted by Azaelia

I don't think we have enough from anyone yet to form a solid opinion.

And we will never have enough information unless someone is the first one to start the actual playing.

Originally Posted by Valier

Aganzir- not sure I like that already he thinks Roa an Ordo...unwise Roa is very cunning and it is not good to underestimate her so early on.

Sorry, but I don't understand this. Firstly, the wolves don't know one another. Secondly, I didn't even reach a conclusion when I spoke about Roa! I can understand if you say I don't sit right with you, but I just can't understand that reasoning.

Something about the trials: It will not be wise to concentrate only on your group of three then (I hope this is something everybody has realised, but I think it's good to say aloud, just in case). And we can also make this harder for the wolves. They get to know one another only on night 1, and if people don't post about others than their pre-day fellows before that, it'll be too easy for a wolf to say then: "I changed my mind while seeing what he said/did on his pre-day" about a fellow. So if we force them to comment on others before they know their fellows, it'll be less likely that they can change their opinion about them later and get away with it.
I hope I make sense although I'm not too sure about it.

edit: xed since Rikae

[Nogrod]

Go Agan go!

I'm lifting you to join Lommy with my "not suspecting too much right now" -category. You're speaking plain sense and make good points.

I had some bad felings about your first post to be sure but this one made me rethink your position. I know you could pull that kind of trick to be sure but I'd hate to vote for someone who makes such a lot of sense.

Also I'm a bit baffled why people think Zali's suspicious... Maybe I need to take a closer look on her before the Day ends (less than an hour).

And where is Naria? She promised to come back and I'm truly waiting for her to reappear as I tend to fear her almost as much as I fear Kath (who has not popped in either).

And if I have it right Sally hasn't shown her face either, or Gil-Galad...

[Nogrod]

About Zali then. She seems to be consistent in what she says.

What I find a bit suspicious is her non-commitment to say anything even about the importance of Day 0.0. She kind of walks around the subject looking like she tries to be in good terms with everyone. "Day1's are not my favourites but this time it might be important even if I'm not going to count too much on it..." etc. (that was not a direct quote but kind of a shorthand of what she has said)

A Little Green looks pretty good and Rikae has brought in a few really good points. So that means Izzy is the wolf among them? Maybe I'm not ready to draw that conclusion just yet... But I'd like to hear more from her.

EDIT: X'd with Lommy & Might

[Aganzir]

Aiee, I didn't realise the deadline is so near.

I take back some of my suspicion about Lommy after her last post. But if I have time I'll look through her posts quickly and elaborate on why I suspect her in the first place.

Who strikes me as suspicious at the moment is Groin. I know he's a newbie and therefore suspicious behaviour doesn't necessarily indicate guilt, but anyway.

Originally Posted by Groin

Brinniel- I'm satisfied with the explanation she gives. I still go with my gut feeling anyway and say that she's a wolf.

One of my favourite ways of wolf hunting is reading not only what but how people post. I won't start explaining what my Finnish teacher has told about the reader position (I'm not sure if that's the word, or even a word at all. Anyway, I'm speaking about the perspective from which one automatically views everything s/he reads & writes). And I think the way that was written is suspicious; "Your reply was good, but I don't want to give up suspecting you because I don't suspect anyone else."

Originally Posted by Groin

Nogrod- The loudest and most helpful of the players.

I recognise there the way I always try to please and be in good terms with players I am afraid of when I'm a wolf. Which, of course, isn't what every wolf does, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a newbie wolf doing that.

Ok, and at the moment I feel like suspecting a newbie because of newbieishness.

edit: xed with Noggy, Isabell, Greenie

[Isabellkya]

Saying you're going to vote for non-voters, seems to me, to be a bit on the path of laying ground for future manipulative endeavors, Nogrod. Today is a free vote day, we can do whatever we like with our vote (if we so choose to do so); reading too much into any votes made today, can and will lead only to folly.

Wolves are dangerous regardless of loud/quiet.. a dead wolf is a dead wolf, much more preferable than scratching at the door, readying to maul us. Yet there is a line between naturally quiet, and too quiet. I don't think any of us have the ability to snag thoughts out of others' minds.. so it does help to say words and thoughts. But lynching people based on how vocal they are.. is a bit rubbish.

Sorry.. skimming everything so I can get a post or two in before deadline.. which is just shy of twenty minutes, I think?


X'd with everything after my last post (#69).

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

lynching people based on how vocal they are.. is a bit rubbish.

I do agree. But in a long run the silent people turn from assets to threats. That's the way it is.

Okay my vote then:

++ Legate

He's the only one I have something like a "case" on.

In an actual voting I might have voted differently though as I'd hate to lose a contributing player like he is just on these grounds. In a normal game I'd liked to see more of his posting to decide.

Others that look somewhat suspicious to me:
The Ka: Writing a lot to look committed but not saying anything (careful werewolf -tactics)
Zali: Yes, that's too defencive and roundabout to raise eyebrows
Roa: Too agreeable
Groin: Even if a newcomer his list of suspicions looks like he tried to build it up to look good as the general air seemed to be that we should say something about others.

An uneasy feeling I get from:
Naria & Kath: I always fear them and there's only one post from Naria to count...

Am totally baffled about:
Shasta, Sally & Gil-Galad: Are you playing guys?
The Might: I just don't get your reasoning...
Valier: Enigma, as always.
Menel: fifty-fifty

Innocentish:
Brinn: I disagree with her but she feels innocent
Rikae: Talks sense (even if I disagree with a few things) and feels right.
Agan: Talks sense
Lommy: Feels innocent

Sorry. Time's up...

EDIT: X'd with everyone... but it was still 8.00PM

[McCaber]

One thing - the reason I thanked Menel in my second post is this: I think a lot, from many different positions. If I said everything that crossed my mind, I would contradict myself twelve times from Tuesday. It probably would be held against me, and it leads to a premature death from either side.

Now, what we've all been waiting for - an analysis of Roa.

1. Introduction. Agrees with Nogrod on the importance of the Day, suspects Lommy, and wants actual content in posts.
2. Responds to Groin. A quote - "It's better to suspect many than to suspect none." Wise.
3. Points out that the wolves don't know each other, suspects Lommy, Ka, and Menel.
4. Both loud and quiet wolves are dangerous.
5. Updates to current tactics.
6. Tries to spark conversation.
7. Wonders why no one is talking
8. Says why Day 0 is important, doesn't want to face quiet people in the arena (heh heh).
9. Leaves for the night.
10. Comes back, defends herself, votes for Menel.
11. Small talk with Nogrod.
12. Starts the day, considers Legate's identity.
13. Analyzes Naria and myself. Suspects me.
14. An explanation and regret about Naria
15. Corrects my name (thank you, by the way. I was about to comment on that.)
16. Says she has to leave.
17. Leaves

There's a lot there to look at. Again, not very suspicious at first glance. She just seems more innocent or gifted than wolf. This would be a much easier choice if Naria gave us more content. As it is, I suspect Naria slightly more, but I would like more from her to look at.

[Aganzir]

For those who will be in the same trial with Lommy...

Not much of what she has said this far has made me suspicious about her. But there's something in her posts that I very much dislike, though I really can't put my finger on it.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Ka has been all the time in character. It really makes her less suspicious to me. A wolf might be more concerned about her appearances. Yet, on the other hand, a wolf might count on that no one minds a little in-charactering at the start of the first day and use it as an excuse for saying nothing constructive...

I can see the sense of the statement - but it feels completely wrong. It feels like Lommy saw someone who was behaving suspiciously and turned it upside down. It resembles the way Legcobbler spoke in the last game. Or a Lommywolf who has seen a suspicious person and wants to defend her, hoping she's her fellow wolf. That's not the only time I get that feeling from her posts when she speaks about someone (eg. Groin in #81).

Originally Posted by Lommy

Roa seems to be acting a bit too harmonically with others to be her normal self - is she a wolf looking for possible allies?

The phrasing. Wrong. That's just wrong.

Her reaction to Azaelia in #81 looked quite genuine, though.

As a conclusion, Lommy bothers me more and more every time I read her posts, but I still can't elaborate it any better. Some fleeting glimpses, and the growing feeling that there's something wrong. Argh.

**

I just can't figure Ka out. She looks sensible, but I have no idea if she's innocent or not.

Anyway, I'll be leaving for a while again. Back before the deadline.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm not quite sure when the deadline is, and I'm going to be at work for the next five hours. I've been asleep and then in class for the past... twelve.

And Aganzir, you'll notice that I did try to change my playing style in the phantom's game, only to be the first wolf kill. Logic dictates that that is apparently a bad idea...

Anyway, I'm full aware that there's not a lot to go on (read: nothing) where I'm concerned, due to RL issues. (I have a lot of those lately....) I believe Volo said that the deadline was at 8:00 PM GMT, which I /think/ translates to 2:00 PM CST, meaning... an hour and a half?

[Aganzir]

About an hour and ten minutes from now, yes.

Don't give up so easily. The first game you behave differently the wolves might well think you're a gifted, but please.

[Aganzir]

Is either of you around?

To be honest, this feels quite frustrating. If Shasta doesn't post anything, I'll vote for him. If I can't tell which of you is the wolf, I rather save the one who contributes more.

[Aganzir]

++ Shasta

[THE Ka]

Yes, sorry.

I had to go rush and take care of something important for the moment.

Ugh, I wish I had more grounds to go on. I really don't want to vote this way, because Shasta, I understand how hard it is when RL things get in the way. Though, I really wished you could have posted more, about anything, earlier in the day before Agan came on and after. Sorry if it was pressuring or something, but I don't want to vote you out for RL issues at all, only because not posting much besides a hello or two kind of looks more suspicious than a slipped word or two, or strange reasoning. I think you probably could have posted something, and didn't have to give up too soon.

++Shasta


~ Ka