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Old 01-09-2008, 09:36 PM   #11
Galin
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin
The Lord of the Rings hardly represents an "ultimate" conception.
I meant ultimately published there, as opposed to your statement that Tolkien once thought the East-elves were Avari '... when the Lorien chapters were written'. One notes however, that Tolkien does not call the East-elves Avari in the 'ultimate' version sent off for publication, as opposed to a draft of something (the term Avari does not appear in The Lord of the Rings IIRC).

Quote:
Moreover, I find no warrant for a 'late' or 'final' formulation wherein "Eldar' has been narrowed to "Elves of Valinor + Sindar." The Eldar were those who embarked on the March, whether they finished it or not. The only change which occurred relative to the Silvans was the recognition that they were part of the March.
Eldar being narrowed to West-elves is what Tolkien published. I look at it with respect to application of language rather than varying conceptions. No one seems to object that Elda took on the sense of Eldo 'One of the Marchers' and then properly excluded the Avari -- what is wrong then with the information in The Lord of the Rings? Nothing that I can see, not even the fact that Tolkien would decide that the Nandor began the March. Tolkien himself should have no problem with the fluidity of a term.

On Eol, Tolkien did consider the idea, but as Mr. Hicklin says and as CJRT notes...

Quote:
'It is curious that - as in the original text of Maeglin, where he was 'of the kin of Thingol' - in my father's very late work on the story Eol becomes again 'one of the Eldar' (p. 328), though consumed with hatred of the Ñoldor; whereas here he is a Mornedhel (one of the Avari), and moreover of the aboriginal Second Clan.' CJRT, Quendi And Eldar

Last edited by Galin; 01-10-2008 at 07:00 AM.
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