COMPASS & LOTR comparison

[Sauron the White]

Gwathagor ... thanks for the correction on the CASABLANCA quote. Duly noted and corrected.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

If you expected one medium to give you some of the unique qualities found in the other medium, then you have been misinformed about the nature and limits of the medium.

Then you have an unconscionably low opinion of the capacity of the cinematic medium.

[Lalaith]

Now THAT is a movie (1944 LotR). Peter Lorre as Gollum - so obvious when you think about it....

[Sauron the White]

from WCH

Then you have an unconscionably low opinion of the capacity of the cinematic medium

I do not know exactly what that means. I have a very high opinion of what can be achieved if film. The key word being CAN. I do however believe more or less in Sturgeons Law - 90% of everything is crap.

How is that to be characterized as unconsionably low?

[Bêthberry]

I'm confused by the wording of this thread and the Books thread. Pullman Rips on LotR, others. This thread seems to be devoted to mere film popularity rather than a comparison of the two authors, although it's title suggests that comparison. So, taking a nod from this thread title, I'm posting here, but perhaps Esty might decide this belongs on the Books thread.

Having seen GC, I'm currently rereading HDM.

Northern Lights I still find very intriguing. My fascination lies with Pullman's creation of a world so like ours but existing under a different historical consequence. That for me is what makes the story compelling, not so much the ideology.

I remain just as appalled by Coulter and Asriel on this reading as I was on the first tread. Pullman's depiction of parents is intriguing--at once so very contemporary and yet also so reminiscent of early historical attitudes towards children as familial property. Both perspectives show parents oblivious of emotional responsibility to the child they brought into the world as they pursue their own ambitions and professional pursuits. Coulter and Asriel are both horrible, horrid and dispicable in their abuse of children, whether it's Coulter's kidnapping and experiments or Asriel's murder of Roger. (I have real problems accepting Asriel as a hero after what he does to Roger--how can I glorify a man who would bring down The Authority when he stoops to child murder to pursue his own ambitions? Is killing an innocent child (from a lower class) acceptable as a preamble to going after the big kahuna?)

How to contrast this depiction of parenting with parents in Tolkien's Middle-earth? The only two who come close in their arrogance, pride and conceit are Luthien's father Thingol and Turin's mother Morwen Eledhwen. Their willfulness is in large part responsible for the trials their children undergo but even they are not active child murderers.

Lyra's childhood at Jordan College is presented with Tom Sawyerish idyllic freedoms and a wistful delight in the rough and tumble play and wars of various childhood factions. Then in SK we get a different version of childhood as something akin to a Lord of the Flies viscious mob--children run amok when adults aren't there to supervise them.

Is this the difference between Pullman's view of human nature--something Darwinian--and Tolkien's--something less bestial? Is it evidence of Pullman's playing with alternate universes? Or is it simply an example of the inconsistency of his moral outlook?

[Lalaith]

Really interesting comparisons there, Bethberry, and ones to ponder. I hadn't thought about the parenting thing in Pullman but you are right, it is odd. Then there's Will having to look after his own mother, too.

I will allow myself a brief quibble, though.

The only two who come close in their arrogance, pride and conceit are Luthien's father Thingol and Turin's mother Morwen Eledhwen.

Asriel/Thingol I will accept, but my own interpretation of the characters makes it hard for me to see parallels between Morwen and Coulter. Coulter was sinister and entirely self-seeking, and her eventual mothering instinct is as much of a surprise to her as it is to the reader. Morwen loved her children very much, but these were terrible times and she was purposefully trying to bring them up to be tough and hard, just so they would have some chance of survival. She made mistakes and she had become very bitter, but I don't think she was remotely conceited.

[davem]

And yet I still wonder why TGC has fared so badly at the US box office & done so well everywhere else - face it, if TGC had performed as well in the US as it did across the rest of the world New Line would have a massive hit on their hands & there would be no question of whether or not a sequel would happen. So it could be argued that its US audiences (or lack of them) that has put the franchise at risk (or killed it).

I'm intrigued - is it because there are no American stars (or American accents) in the movie? Is it because, unlike LotR & Narnia, there isn't a large book fan-base ready & waiting? Or is it the 'message' - did the boycott actually work & stop people going to see the movie? Or, & of course one has to ask this, was the movie just bad, or confused?