WW XXXXI: With a Twist

[Shastanis Althreduin]

The "reasons stated earlier" being that I'm more active in this game, due to suggestions by people last game that I be more active.


'Kay then.

In the interest of saving my own skin (I really am tired of being unjustly executed Day 1; last game was a wonderful break, thanks to EggNogrod, but still):

++Nerwen

[mormegil]

++Boro

I really do believe he is playing a rather bold game, it's when he's at his best, and I've seen him before do things like this and get away with it. He is in the top 3 to 5 most bold players. What he has said doesn't add up to me and is the one who sticks out to me the most at this point.

[Boromir88]

This is interesting...I was going to come on, pop in and vote. But with roughly 40 minutes left...

Aganzir
Azaelia
Eomer
Isabellyka
Legate
Nerwen
Shasta

still have yet to vote. That's far too many, maybe I should hold my vote to see what happens here at the end.

Edit: Wow my math is really bad...there's still over an hour

[Macalaure]

I made it back for a short while. I know my approach right now concentrates too much on one person, but I don't have the time to look closely at everybody (Valier and Aganzir leave a slightly suspect feeling, but that's nothing remotely solid) and Nogrod keeps on looking worse with every post.

It's funny that he keeps defending himself mostly against that "elite" players accusation most of all. At least for me, that's the most minor part of my reasons to suspect him. It's also the easiest thing to defend oneself from, because what he said about it long ago was vague: vague enough to suspect him and vague enough for him to weasle himself out of.

He doesn't touch the the more solid and interesting points, because he can't win defending himself against them.

Originally Posted by Nog

When he came in to the game there were almost twenty posts made and what he did was to concentrate his whole post on me - not even mentioning another name there.

I explained this was because none of the others seemed suspicious. This was one of the things you cut out when you quoted, and that is why this statement of yours:

Originally Posted by Nog

Yes I cut your post as I tried to reveal what your post was all about.

is clearly not the truth. You seeked to misrepresent what I said, and continue to do so still, so that it suits your defense/offense better and more conveniently.

Originally Posted by Nog

So it's much a do about nothing. In the meantime it's a post that tries to make me look bad, intentionally and calmly. That's where I smell the rat. In the intent which leads to fabricating a post to paint someone black out of thin air.

It was very little ado about very little. It was you who made it sound like a huge accusation. And as SPM said it, it looked like the reaction of a cornered wolf.

Originally Posted by Nog

I know I'm an easy target on Day1

Hang on, what?

Originally Posted by Nog

(once they bandwaggoned me in bright daylight and got me lynched)

Was that in the game you were turned into a Fenris?

Originally Posted by Nog

But I play this game to get involved. That's the game to me.

It sometimes demands some self-defence before going to sleep as I also like to play this game and do not wish to die on Day1.

To win the game as a wolf? Post once, at most twice a Day in the beginning. Do not say anything that is not approved by the majority. If you attack, take a victim who is easy to lynch (someone who involves her/himself and thence gets talked about). Always look you're nice towards most of the village as people are prone to vote for someone who has voiced a concern towardfs themselves...

Now this is plain ridiculous. Silent players win as silent wolves. Wordy players win as wordy wolves. Bold players win as bold wolves.

You know, nobody wants to be lynched and really nobody wants to be lynched on Day 1. But I've never seen an innocent try to escape it by simply trying to give everybody who might vote for him a bad conscience because they'd be lynching a player who soo easy to lynch, and soo involved, and soo unlike a (fabricated and unapplicable) stereotype of a wolf.


Please, all of you, there are still a lot of votes left, there have to be some who agree with me about Nogrod. He's clearly a wolf!

[Nerwen]

That's all very well, Mac, but I read your first post on Nogrod, and it looks very thin indeed to me. But then his reaction does seem a bit paranoid... However, I don't see enough evidence to warrant voting him (or you, on the other hand).

As I said, I'm keeping out of that one. I just don't want to get involved in a possible bandwagon.
EDIT: X'd with Legate.

[Nerwen]

And now I have to go.

Merry Christmas, everyone.

[Aganzir]

I don't really understand this Nerwen bandwagon. At least to me she looks rather innocent, and the reasons to vote her aren't the best I've seen. I must say I'm not the least surprised if there are a couple of wolves among the Nerwen-voters.

I am voting for

++ Nogrod

but I'm ready to switch my vote for Shasta if necessary.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, I went somehow through the rest of toDay's posts and I have a few things to add.

I stand behind what I said about Rikae. Now after I read all of her toDay's posts, I am pretty convinced of her being innocent.

I am glad SpM is around, though I know what he is capable to do, nothing rings my alarm on him this far. I am looking forward to what he has to say to us in the future.

I don't know what to thing about Aganzir. Given recent experiences, I know better than to trust her. She is not particularly suspicious, yet I am worried that finding her unsuspicious may actually be a reason to worry. Yet I also don't want to overreact based on oversuspiciousness. Let's say my feelings about her are not in the left nor in the right for the time being, though I'm staying alert.

Kath is one who really troubles me. I mentioned her vote above, now also her exchange with Boro. The overcombinating part of me could come up with wild theories like both of them being wolves, though then Boro's vote for Kath (retracted) would be quite strange thing for a wolf to do against a fellow wolf. Yet, a "double-trick" (like "no wolf would do such a thing") is always possible and not even that surprising from Boro.

I am kind of concerned by so little interest put in those who are not as vocal, the attention seems to focus mainly on several players. Yet in a big village on Day 1 it isn't that strange and maybe for the better, so there is not that much confusion on Day 1. So maybe now it isn't the right time, only let's not forget that in the future.

Well, time is pressing and I have to vote soon. Hope the voting madness didn't start yet.

EDIT: x-ed with Isabellkya and Aganzir.

[Nerwen]

Kath is looking very wolvish to me. In my last post I said:

On that note, what about the possibility that Boro and Kath are both wolves?

–And she voted me in her very next post, saying it was because of my post about the "Cursed Seer" early in the game, and because she didn't like my explanation. Now, I think those are extremely flimsy reasons to vote someone on. It looks to me more like a reaction to what I'd just said.

I thought Kath was most likely innocent before this, and I was basically just throwing that idea out to see what people thought, but now... did I pick her by accident?

Then there's Valier, who also voted me, giving very weak reasons. I don't know what to make of her; she's hardly posted at all.

The whole Mac-Nogrod-Boro-Rikae-whoever-else-is-in-it business– I don't know what's going on there, except that there's a wolf or two in there somewhere... I think I'll just leave that alone.

Okay, so my top suspects are now Kath, Morm and Shasta, the last two for reasons which I've already stated.

Since I may not be back before the deadline, and since there are three votes against me already, I'm voting

++Shasta.

I've been warning about bandwagons all along, I know, and this could be one– but the other two who have voted him are the people I think are least likely to be wolves at the moment. And I think he's been acting too wolfishly to be ignored.

[Aganzir]

Nogrod 2 (Mac, Spm)
Nerwen 3 (Kath, Valier, Shasta)
Shasta 3 (Farael, Rikae, Nerwen)
Boro 1 (morm)
+ Boro voted and retracted on Kath

I think I'd be happy voting for Mac, but I'm not sure if it's wise to bring in yet another lynch candidate. At the moment it's Shasta who's leading, he recieved his third vote after Nerwen.

Of those who have some votes already, I'd prefer Shasta or Noggie. I have a feeling there's something evil going on there.

[Farael]

Well, let's take a look at the votes yesterDay

Nogrod 5 (Mac, Spm, Aganzir, Shastanis, Legate)
Nerwen 4 (Kath, Valier, Isabellkya, Eomer)
Shasta 4 (Farael, Rikae, Nerwen, Boromir)
Boro 2 (morm, Legate)
Rikae 1 (Nogrod)

There are two I've highlighted, I also underlined the Nogrod voters

Now, with two votes to go and Nogrod having a 5-3 lead over both Nerwen and Shasta, Eomer voted for Nerwen, pulling her up to 4 votes, with Boro still having his vote left.

Originally Posted by Eomer

Not happy about Nogrod being lynched. The way it happened looks odd to me.

Nerwen looks worse to me.

++NERWEN

It is a poorly explained vote, and it is almost admittedly trying to save Nogrod

Then Boromir votes for Shasta at the last moment. This is an interesting move and I'm not sure what he was trying to accomplish by it, but if he meant to save Nogrod he could've by voting for Nerwen (keep in mind that the LAST person to reach a tie is the one lynched)

Finally, I'd like to note that Mac voted first for Nogrod which would have been a safe wolf-on-wolf vote.

So what do I gather from here

Eomer is looking iffy for trying to save a wolf with no clear explanation (however, he does not say "hey, let's save Nogrod" he just says "Nerwen looks worse". If he had wanted to save Nogrod 'cos he felt Nogrod made sense I could've thought Eomer a misguided ordo... but the way he put it I'm not so sure that's the case)

Boromir is looking better, quite simply because if he wanted to save Nogrod he could've.

I'm not sure I'm ready to think that the Nogrod-Mac debate is wolf-on-wolf, but I do note that Mac had a safe vote.

Edit: Fixed a mistake with the voting record

[Valier]

Hmmm I also have given a thought to the Nogrod/Mac thing yesterday. I do admit that it is a little bold for 2 wolves on day one to argue so much, drawing attention to one another, then one gets killed. But I also had the thought....what if they did this on purpose? remember the wolves can pm during the day. Both Nogrod and Mac are bold players and I wouldn't put this bold move past them. Nogrod garnered suspicion so early on and it makes me think they planned it that way hoping us villagers would think that after all that Mac is innocent. Thus letting him slip through our fingers for the rest of the game.

[Farael]

Originally Posted by Valier

Hmmm I also have given a thought to the Nogrod/Mac thing yesterday. I do admit that it is a little bold for 2 wolves on day one to argue so much, drawing attention to one another, then one gets killed. But I also had the thought....what if they did this on purpose? remember the wolves can pm during the day. Both Nogrod and Mac are bold players and I wouldn't put this bold move past them. Nogrod garnered suspicion so early on and it makes me think they planned it that way hoping us villagers would think that after all that Mac is innocent. Thus letting him slip through our fingers for the rest of the game.

I wouldn't put it past either Nogwolf nor Mac. However, I'm still not sure about it. If you look at Mac's last post, it looks genuine to me.

Honestly, I'd hate to lynch Mac toDay and find him an ordo... what a payback for the most vocal advocant of lynching Nogwolf.

Also, looking back at Nogrod's posts there's his half-defense of Legate which would seem to implicate him as a wolf... but Legate cast the last vote for Nogrod so that's making him look rather good right now.

Edit: Grammar mistake

[Isabellkya]

I must echo. Shasta as the choice amongst the wolves is quite odd to me. He had been considered an easy lynch to some; and quite a few had voted for him. Which it would be a good thing for the wolves; to have that fodder in front of them. Unless of course their aim was to have us focus on that, rather than other things.

Eomer's vote and comment; don't strike me as that worrying. The sparseness, almost seemed to be a pre-emptive covering of Eomer's own behind, if Nogrod had turned out to be innocent. Yet the phrasing of the first sentence is all wrong to me.


X'd with Farael.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, the count after first Day obviously is not that bad, though it looks more like pure luck than anything else. Nevertheless, a good luck. Now we stand in front of analysing what yesterDay and this Night's kill can tell us.

Originally Posted by mormegil

Shata? An odd choice indeed. Of course, being a suspect with many people it is a good choice for the wolves in that it causes many of us to wonder as I am now.

Obviously. Could there have been some other reason? After all, there was also the chance of getting Shasta lynched still. The wolves could have picked someone else from the "background". Yet, Shasta indeed leaves a few tracks. I guess this would deserve looking through; it is late here now, but I will surely do that soon.

Now:

What you say, Farael, about Eomer's and Boro's votes would make sense. Especially in the latter case, indeed, had Boro been a wolf, he could have saved his packmate with no problem. That makes me indeed feel better about him. Eomer, on the other hand, could have attempted a "savior strike" with hope for someone to retract... the thing is, he really appeared out of nowhere so we don't know whether he was waiting in shadows for the right moments to cast his vote or whether he just came as a simple villager to do his job.

Mac then... looking at his exchanges with Nogrod, I don't necessarily think it was a wolf on wolf debate, yet I am not also ready to drop this possibility from sight. I only skimmed through their yesterDay's posts, I would need more time to look at them deeper. But basically from I saw, I get the feeling of genuine accusations (from Mac at least).

It is terribly late here and I will be back tomorrow (RL, I mean). Till later.

EDIT: x-ed since Farael

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I'm back!

A few words. Somehow, I am concerned by the current vote list. Unless I am mistaken, Nerwen is in the lead now. Well, personally I consider her behavior quite normal and the reasons to vote her are not quite well ("confused theories" from Kath, "references to other games" by Valier, some sort of self-defence from Shasta or what?). It is probably of no reason to split votes now. Yet funnily enough, I find all three of the votes for Nerwen quite strange and I would even prefer voting Kath or Valier over Shasta - but he is the only one who has some votes. Shasta is, as I said, behaving very odd, yet maybe this really is the new playing style. On the other hand, both the reasons of Kath and Valier are quite feeble.

Whatever, but I would probably like to focus my today's vote elsewhere to see how Shasta behaves in the future and if on Day 2 there are some more things to ponder.

A few words on Boro who appeared only after I left the last time. Going through his posts, he is reasonable player as I know he is, but there is this but. For example his speech about Nogrod based on Nog saying "us" makes no sense to me. This, in my opinion, is no reasoning and people do that normally. It could be taken as joke unless Boro continued his suspicion on Nogrod seriously in his post, thus this being one of the arguments.
I don't think Farael's argument about "pseudo-Seer behaviour" is applicable, but what I just say seems really wolfy to me.

I don't know if I'm going to vote for him, but he is quite high on my list.

These were the main things now. I will look at other things and choose my vote. Till later.

EDIT: x-ed with Boro, Nerwen and Mac

[Isabellkya]

Alright, the relatives are gone and I've a bit of time before I must sleep. So going over the posts thus far.. I've found a few things which just kinda jump out at me. I know people have voted by now.. so I'll just converse with myself. :P

I haven't played many games here with Shasta where he's lived long enough to get a read on his style. But I have played with him elsewhere many times. All in all, he seems to be taking a defensive stance against accusations of his possible wolfness due solely on his new (I guess) playing style here; in becoming more vocal upon requests from others in previous games. The majority of his posts are just fodder.. they don't seem to contain much of substance. He isn't on my suspect list yet; as I've heard tale of a previous game where he'd been a wolf and had been taking hints from his fellow wolf/wolves as what to say/do. I haven't see such things yet, and I would believe it would be pretty obvious if such things happened.

Nerwen on a whole bothers me just a bit. Her posts seem to be mainly about game mechanics, and agreeing with others. In one post, she even went as far as to say that she could be convinced to vote a particular way. At first it struck me as quite innocent, yet combined with her other posts; it was like a flashing radar light went off. I get the feel, that it could be her taking subtle hints from her wolfish pals.

To me Nogrod seems to be his usual self, especially in his attitude towards wanting to lynch the quieter players over the louder ones. Quite understandable.. and I think I've seen such comments in every single game I've played with him. Probably because he always targets me as one of the more quieter players, and it is hard to not notice.

Valier is another edging up to the top of the suspect list, as everything he's said; seems to be non-commital (unless I mis-read something.)

Macalure's insistance on lynching Nogrod is a bit worrying. Innocents have the freedom and luxury of debating and retracting votes when possible. Wolves however, when on a lynch-hunt don't have that.

So I shall vote, and would like to see if anyone else has anything to say before deadline.

++Nerwen


X'ed with Nerwen and Aganzir.

[Nogrod]

Half an hour of time and there are 8 votes left.

Did you read Rikae's latest. That was something.

I said I suspected her because she provedly twisted my words and said I posted something that I didn't to make me look bad.

Now she defences by explaining why she actually didn't mean to suggest we should lynch Legate etc. (which is totally different question).

And how she ends then?

Originally Posted by Rikaewolf

Frohe Weihnachten, everybody, and be good, for goodness' sake!

I know someone says that's nothing but let me tell you that's something. That's a backbone-reaction of a wolf.

Okay, we can do it.

++ Rikae

EDIT: X'd with Agan and Legate

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Half an hour of time and there are 8 votes left.

Did you read Rikae's latest. That was something.

I said I suspected her because she provedly twisted my words and said I posted something that I didn't to make me look bad.

Now she defences by explaining why she actually didn't mean to suggest we should lynch Legate etc. (which is totally different question).

And how she ends then?
I know someone says that's nothing but let me tell you that's something. That's a backbone-reaction of a wolf.

Okay, we can do it.

++ Rikae

EDIT: X'd with Agan and Legate

I don't understand that last at all. "Be good for goodness' sake" seems to me just a farewell fit for the holidays. I'm not sure I like how you call that a "backbone reaction of a wolf". Would you care to explain that?

Really, the only reason I voted Nerwen was because she had the same amount of votes as I had, but to be honest I'm seriously considering retracting my vote and voting EggNogrod. We'll see how the next few minutes play out...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

A vote count, for anyone up at this hour (Merry Christmas by the way, to everyone, it's nearly 4 in the morning for me):

Nogrod 3 (Mac, Spm, Aganzir)
Nerwen 4 (Kath, Valier, Shasta, Isabellkya)
Shasta 3 (Farael, Rikae, Nerwen)
Boro 2 (morm, SPM)
Rikae 1 (Nogrod)

Edit: X'd with SPM.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Would you care to explain that?

I think it's better to lynch a werewolf when we have a chance than not. Don't you agree?

A wolf needs to be agreeable, to give out positive vibrations. Innocents need to be brave enough to step on other people's toes also.

That's a feel-good & be nice thing... "for goodness sake"... good gosh!

My argument against her I've made already earlier. This just topped it.

[Aganzir]

Azaelia
Eomer
The Might
have not voted.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Really, the only reason I voted Nerwen was because she had the same amount of votes as I had, but to be honest I'm seriously considering retracting my vote and voting EggNogrod. We'll see how the next few minutes play out...

Really, I know this isn't nice, but if you don't switch to Nogrod I'm going to switch to you.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

No, with my reason for voting Nerwen simple self defense, and EggNogrod more and more suspicious, I think I'm going to

-- Nerwen
++ Nogrod

Edit: X'd with Agan. You're right, that's not very nice. I'm tempted to take back my retraction, simply because I hate it when people attempt to force me to do things. <.<

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Not happy about Nogrod being lynched. The way it happened looks odd to me.

Nerwen looks worse to me.

++NERWEN