WW XXXXI: With a Twist

[Rikae]

Well, well. I must say, it's difficult not to suspect Nogrod for not only failing to advocate lynching the quiet ones, but actually being rather quiet himself. I take it this is the new style?
I suppose somebody should provide the usual quiet/loud discussion, then. I suggest that we get rid of anyone who isn't pulling his or her weight in this villiage early on, rather than leave them to the last as unknown quantities when we can't afford to lose them.
No, Rikae, actually, it's better to keep them around, because it's better to have even a few short posts to go on than none at all.
Yes, but you don't understand. We can force them out of the shadows by threatening them with lynching!
Well, not so much now, can we, Rikae?

Yes, I know the above is pointless, but no more so than attempts to figure out TP's twists. Honestly, it could be anything at all, and throwing random ideas out isn't going to accomplish anything.

Instead, I suggest tossing around some accusations. For instance: I dislike the way Legate brings up the topic of the pre-game discussions while telling others - twice - not to discuss it. It shows a certain overcautiousness, if you know what I mean.

[Nerwen]

Calm down. What are you so jumpy about? I'm not accusing you. I'm just asking people to consider how incredibly easy the set-up makes it for the wolves to orchestrate a lynch. It's really worrying me.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Yes, I know the above is pointless, but no more so than attempts to figure out TP's twists. Honestly, it could be anything at all, and throwing random ideas out isn't going to accomplish anything.

I don't know about that– I think it might be worth discussing possibilities.

[Nerwen]

Calm down. What are you so jumpy about? I'm not accusing you. I'm just asking people to consider how incredibly easy the set-up makes it for the wolves to orchestrate a lynch. It's really worrying me.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Yes, I know the above is pointless, but no more so than attempts to figure out TP's twists. Honestly, it could be anything at all, and throwing random ideas out isn't going to accomplish anything.

I don't know about that– I think it might be worth discussing possibilities.

EDIT: X'd with Isbellkya. (The "you" I'm adressing is Mormegil.)
EDIT #2: And somehow I just double posted. Sorry.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

I agree Nerwen; with the wolves being able to communicate at all times; it shall be easier for them to form a bandwagon/lynching party.

Well, hey, just the numbers will do that. We had four wolves last game and they led the village around by its collective nose. (Uh... so to speak...) The fact they they can communicate during the Day makes it twice as bad.

Of course they might also decide they can afford to start accusing each other, even this early in the game.

Either way, we need to be on the lookout for accusations without substance.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, hey, just the numbers will do that. We had four wolves last game and they led the village around by its collective nose. (Uh... so to speak...) The fact they they can communicate during the Day makes it twice as bad.

Of course they might also decide they can afford to start accusing each other, even this early in the game.

Either way, we need to be on the lookout for accusations without substance.

The wolves being able to discuss isn't necessarily bad for us. I've seen it before where they discuss strategy mid-day and you see one change rapidly thus exposing themselves. So I would watch for that behavior too.

[Nerwen]

Good idea... though I don't know how useful it's going to be toDay, when we're going to have people disappearing to go to Christmas parties and such.

EDIT: X'd with Shasta.

[Valier]

oh the drama!! I am short on time right now, and I hate to throw out any accusations yet. I am forming some ideas on people as the day goes on. Thankfully this is going to be a longer day, giving us all more to work with. I will be back after work tomorrow, hopefully there will be more talk, (but let's hope, not like 3 pages to read when I get home.)

[Farael]

How odd (or is it "refreshing" the word I'm looking for?) I'm away from the computer for a sizable portion of the evening and I find that the number of posts is still manageable. That's just wonderful methinks!

*ahem*

There's little to add as most points have been covered. A few thoughts

Rikae is being agressive, which is her usual M.O. She also says this

Shasta looks overeager to participate and rather nervous. I've seen him as a wolf before (in the game I modded), and he had a similar "mood" then.

It should be worth mentioning she said something similar about Macalure last time around and guess what? he WAS a wolf.

Still, I wouldn't usually pay much attention to comments like those (after all, my playing style may vary from game to game as the mood strikes me, and depending on how busy I am in Real Life) if it wasn't because Shasta HAS been looking rather odd

His comments about Nogrod better be a joke (as Noggie already said he would be toning down his participation level)

And then we have this

Playing style changes usually indicate something or other. (Hah, look at me go...)

Really now? playstyle changes indicate something well, that's helpful... if it wasn't because you could just PM it to your fellow wolves (assuming you were one) I'd think this is a wolves' attempt at alerting the other wolves of a possible gifted.

I had a lot of requests last game to become more active, so I'm trying

Well, perhaps you have been joking around and I for once agree with that kind of play-style, as I strive hard to remember (myself and remind others) that this is just a game.

However, if you are seriously trying to help I'd recommend you try to express your theories in a way that they are likely at least to be considered. Playing too cautiously may not get you lynched, but it won't get you support either. And that goes for the rest of the village as well!!


On a random note, where is SPM? I've been waiting all day to start a friendly match of non-sensical accusations

Edit: Fixing punctuation (forgot a question mark after SPM)

[The Saucepan Man]

Apologies for not being more vocal but I am unfortunately experiencing internet connection problems. Currently, my only way of accessing the net is via my BlackBerry, which is very cumbersome and not at all conducive to playing WW.

It should sort itself out, but I don,t know how long it will take. Possibly, I may not be able to do anything more toDay other than vote.

I have only really been able to skim read the conversation this far, but here are my current suspicions, for what they are worth.

I tend to find those who come across as cautious on Day 1 as suspicious, as I always think that is the best approach for a Wolf at the outset. The two who have come across as most cautious thus far are Nerwen and Legate. As I think Noggie mentioned, caution is Legate's normal modis operandi. Not sure about Nerwen, but I am uneasy about the way that she seems to be portraying herself as so helpful.

On the other hand, while he is coming across as anything but cautious, I tend to agree with what others have said about Shasta being unusually vocal and somewhat jumpy.

As I said, I doubt that I shall be able to do any more toDay than vote (my thumbs are aching already) and, unless there are any radical developments, I shall probably vote for either Nerwen or Shasta.

Toodlepip.

[Kath]

Okaay. Boro, I don't entirely know where you got that suspicion from. When trying to argue out a point you generally give both sides and come to a conclusion, which is what I did. Are you actually suspicious of me or did you just need to vote early?

Back on Nerwen, you say your suggestion of a cursed Seer wasn't serious, but it certainly felt it. People were throwing out ideas and though they were unlikely scenarios (such as tp telling certain people to post certain things in the pre-game discussion) they were meant seriously, so I don't see that you can put your own unlikely theory in the same category if you meant it in a facetious way.

Finally I want to pull up something Noggie said too:

Because everyone has hunches and feelings but a villager seldomly tries to build up general distrust just based on a hunch with nothing to support it.

Seldom but sometimes. Valier is a prime example of that, and there are times when there simply isn't the evidence to support such an assertion, which is often that case on Day 1. I'm not defending Mac (who was the subject of this discussion) but I do want to point out that it does happen.

[Macalaure]

When I made my last post I gave some points against Nogrod because they were all that I could come up with so early on. Now I will focus on him because he's clearly up to no good.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

He's (Legate) a valuable player for the village and I would leave him be on this Day unless something more drastic comes to the fore from his part. There's no sense in losing our best hands with Day1 lottery.

I'm not pessimistic Mac. I'm always the optimist.

You'd be the first optimist to call Day 1 a lottery. While I don't share the suspicions of Legate, I find it somewhat strange that you discourage considering him too strongly this early on. On this day, we all will probably have to vote because of weak reasons in the end, simply due to the nature of Day 1, but if the strongest of those weak reasons point towards a 'stronger' player, I'm all for lynching that one.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I'd like to know what you would have said in the second post of the whole game that would have had "point in discussing" it with your standards?

You could have said something instead of letting others do so and remain in the background of that particular obviously nonsensical matter - like Legate did.


And then he blows up very feeble points to a long ramble to make them look like something, dropping names like "bogus post", "smelling a rat", etc. Note also how he mixes what I said with Shasta's strange/joking arguments to make them look bad by association.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

When a player says that someone "rubs them the wrong way" or that s/he "doesn't sit right" with her/him - or that they "raise the eyebrow" - but will not bring forwards anything more solid I'm smelling a rat. Why? Because everyone has hunches and feelings but a villager seldomly tries to build up general distrust just based on a hunch with nothing to support it. An innocent villager normally stands up for her/his case when s/he has something. With the wolves it's different as they have no actual case or any real suspicion as they are trying to get an innocent to the gallows.
....
Generally it makes me wonder why such a bright player like Mac had nothing to say at that point of the game but to bring forwards all this "out of thin air nothing" about my posts. I mean yes I might be mistaken as when some people just jump on you with this kind of nonsense you tend to feel they are wolves trying to get you. But at this point it's my best explanation to Mac's behaviour.

The way I see it, then his only argument is, that I used "rub the wrong way" and "raise an eyebrow. The rest is general ramble that you could accuse anyone with at this early stage. I don't see why an innocent should bother to do such a thing.

Note also the way he shortened my post in his quote to make it look less like a careful early day one comment and more like a baseless accusation with no points! (check 82 and 113, please)

The whole thing looks very, very contrived and written with evil intent.


I only took a short look at anybody else, I admit. I'm short on time today. On this short look I didn't see anything obviously wolvish. I will have to vote soon. Nogrod is probably going to get my vote for reasons stated above and before.

[Boromir88]

Lucky me, putsied around at work for 3 hours and then was told to go home...so you have been blessed with my presense for the rest of the day (that is until I have this narrator part to do in a children's christmas musical )

Farael, doesn't it seem like whatever village we are in, we are at eachother's throats? I find that quite interesting...I suggest to you, that you go pick on someone else, because you're barking up the wrong tree. See, (oh look I used the word again!) if it comes down to it, for my own safety I would have to get you lynched, and that is something I don't want to happen, because you are an agressive no-nonsense player...that's very good to have. Plus, you're just an innocent, and if you're dead, I'm good as dead the next day, that will make Noggie's "pessimistic" feelings become a reality. So, it's best for the village if you just went and picked on someone else.

Also, I would suggest you do what Nerwen said, and that is read more carefully. (Isn't this what I was talking about? If we aren't clear we lead to wrong conclusions and that gets the wrong people dead)...for instance:

Finally, and another big problem here, is that Boromir is in favour of lynching people based on quantity rather than quality of posting.

I acknowledge Nogrod's behavior, because that's how he does it...that's his thought process. But read a bit more and you'll notice that I never suggested the thing you claim here, nor did I agree with Nogrod's approach (now I'll do the bolding):

One strategy, that I've considered many times adopting, but I rather think sometimes "quiet" is mistaken as "unhelpful," which isn't the case at all.

Was this an attack against Noggie? No, not at all, Rikae said something with regards to Nogrod's tendancy to want to lynch the quiet, and I gave the explanation.

The only other thing I care to explain is the suggestion I was hinting at being the Seer. And to that I say read Nerwen's post...have I really been away for that long that you've forgotten my controversial style? Whether I'm the seer, or not, I write off innocents and wolves right at the beginning and...this always gets me into trouble early. Maybe, I should change since it always gives me headaches, but I rather like creating such controversy...look at the discussion that has followed?

I say "see" all the time, it was your choice to put emphasis on the word...if I was dropping off a "Seer" hint I would have said "seereally"...that I've done before, but I say "see" all the time.

Okaay. Boro, I don't entirely know where you got that suspicion from. When trying to argue out a point you generally give both sides and come to a conclusion, which is what I did. Are you actually suspicious of me or did you just need to vote early?~Kath

Let me explain, no that will take too long, so let me sum up...You accuse Nerwen, then defend it as being "confused." That's what I find supsicious, and no I tend not to second guess myself. Maybe you think that is wrong and I should go about it differently, but when I think too much it leads my mind in complete disarray and I start thinking of double-bluffs, triple-bluffs whatever...I've never been in a village with Nerwen before, but I don't find what caused the big deal.

When first reading Nogrod's statement about the Seer not being completely trustworth I had the "what the -" reaction as well. Granted, I wasn't thinking about the curse, I thought Nogrod was bringing up the possibility of a false seer, and that being on of the "twists" in the game. That the Seer was some Miss Cleo or something with a distorted "eye." I had the same "what in heavens is Nogrod talking about" reaction, but that's all been clearly explained.

So, now that I have bundles of free time it's time to catch up with the rest of the action...

[Macalaure]

There might be a chance that I can be here short before the deadline, but I can't be sure, so I'm going to vote now. Merry Christmas to you all!

Well, except to

++Nogrod




Seriously, read everything he posts for today very critical. If you think he's innocent, listen to him, if not, then don't let him twist your mind and please don't hesitate to vote for him.