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Old 12-23-2007, 10:51 AM   #1
The Might
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Well, just read through the essay in UT again anf two quotations I found interesting:

Quote:
Actually they must normally have been used by such deputies. Each Stone had its own warden, one of whose duties was to "survey the Stone" at regular intervals, or when commanded, or in times of need.
Quote:
It must however be noted with regard to the narrative of The Lord of the Rings that over and above such deputed authority, even hereditary, any "heir of Elendil" (that is, a recognized descendant occupying a throne or lordship in the Númenórean realms by virtue of this descent) had the right to use any of the palantíri. Aragorn thus claimed the right to take the Orthanc-stone into his possession, since it was now, for the time being, without owner or warden; and also because he was de jure the rightful King of both Gondor and Arnor, and could, if he willed, for just cause withdraw all previous grants to himself.
And about the Elendil-stone:

Quote:
One only remained in the North, the Elendil Stone on Emyn Beraid, but this was one of special properties, and not employable in communications. Hereditary right to use it would no doubt still reside in the "heir of Isildur," the recognized chieftain of the Dunedain, and descendant of Arvedui. But it is not known whether any of them, including Aragorn, ever looked into it, desiring to gaze into the lost West. This Stone and its tower were maintained and guarded by Círdan and the Elves of Lindon.
So, as a conclusion, it seems that Aragorn was indeed at that time its rightful owner, while the Elves were its appointed wardens.
Considering the last quotation, I guess that Men no longer were supposed to look to the west and so Aragorn gave up his hereditary right and gave it to its wardens.
Why exactly the Elves took it to the West, I can only guess. Maybe Men were not meant to gaze in that direction any longer, and I doubt it that the Elves took it for personal use.
The Elves were leaving the world and the Undying Lands would become a legend for Men. Perhaps the Elves thought it was for best that Men forgot the existence of these places.
Imagine if an Ar-Pharazon-like Gondorian ruler (because it seems clear things would not stay perfect forever in M-e) looked through the Elendil-stone, saw the beauty of the Undying Lands and tried to reach it with his ships.
I believe this was done for the sake of Men, not out of greed.
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Last edited by The Might; 12-23-2007 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 12-23-2007, 11:08 AM   #2
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That doesn't make any sense. Why would the Elves want the beauty of the Undying Lands and the glory of the Elder Days to be forgotten by Men? It would make sense to leave the Elendil Stone so that Men could look upon the West and remember the times that were and so the Elves and their deeds would not entirely be forgotten with time. In any case, there would be no problem with Men trying to reach the Undying Lands. The Straight Path was closed to them forever. So the Gondorians discovered with their Flying Ships.
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Old 12-23-2007, 11:14 AM   #3
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I don't know. It seems quite compassionate of the Elves that they might seek to 'protect' Men from the lust the Numenoreans had to get to Valinor.

It also fits in with the idea that all memory of Elves would fade away so that eventually they would be like our own Fairies, resigned to being part of legends and stories - even if they do still exist
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Old 12-23-2007, 07:19 PM   #4
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Thanks Lalwende for the support!

The Fourth Age was the Age of Men and so would be those to come. Elves and Dwarves would slowly pass out of memory and would become legends.

Men were now left to take care for themselves, no need to sit in a tower like Elendil and gaze towards the west dreaming of help from there or of what could have been.

While you say it makes no sense, I disagree. If the Elves thought that all kings of Men would be like Eomer and Aragorn then be sure that the palantir would have stayed, but they knew better. As hinted by Tolkien in a couple of places M-e did not remain a happy place until the Dagor Dagorath...evil Men came to power and in this case it might have been to keep the memory of Valinor hidden from them.
Also, what better explanation should there be....greed? I doubt it...
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Old 12-24-2007, 06:24 AM   #5
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Palantir-Green Re: Tindrock

Your right I had forgotten both that stone and the fact that Tindrock was unreacable. I guess the hills of Eye and Ear relied on fast horses to get thier messages to the rulers.

So, it looks like all stones are accounted for and the two left at the end of the war of the ring are the only two available (I am asuming that, for the purpose of the argument the Anor stone, while nearly usless now, would still be kept somewhere, and that the Ithil stone was indeed blown up when Barad-Dur fell).
A pity. Those who are fond of writing fanfics (or RPG scenarios) might want to consider what might happen if the Osgilath stone was somehown recoved from the bed of the Anduin (by say an earthquake changing the path of the river ore someone late in the forth age putting locks in the river. I have always beived that the river wolnt not have destoyed the stone just made it utterly inacessible and by Third age tech irretrevable.
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Old 12-24-2007, 07:14 AM   #6
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Well, considering THIS you may want to search near Ibiza.

No, but really I think that the disappearence of the palantiri was again a proof of the growing gap between the world of Men and the world of Elves and Dwarves and Hobbits.

Same thing probably happened to the Elessar and to other "magical" substances like mithril and ithildin. Simply forgotten as time passed.
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Old 12-26-2007, 01:10 AM   #7
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Gwathagor is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Gwathagor is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Gwathagor is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
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The farsight of Galadriel and Elrond was probably related to their wisdom, as well as their Rings.
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