Peter Jackson 'stretched' the film license? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

William Cloud Hicklin · 12-22-2007, 12:24 PM

Aha! I thought you might take that line. The copyright statement in each of them reads "Published with permission but not approval of the Tolkien Estate."

Sauron the White · 12-22-2007, 12:33 PM

WCH - a tip of my hat to you for being able to predict my Pavlovian response. But how about it? Permisssion, even without direct product or content approval, is still involvement is it not? And it does seem to fly in the face of the loud protestations that the Estate simply stood there while others exercised their rights accordingly and they have no comment or involvement of any kind. You may not know this for fact..... BUT ... do you think that permission came with any kind of royalty paid to the Estate?

William Cloud Hicklin · 12-22-2007, 12:56 PM

As for royalties, I haven't the slightest idea. Personally I doubt it but that's based merely on a gut feeling, not evidence.

Actually I think that unusual copyright statement represents walking a tightrope, avoiding the Scylla of actual approval, which would imply 'endorsement' or 'involvement', and the Charybdis of simply refusing and looking like obstructionist buttheads (not that it worked, since the PJ camp was happy to falsely accuse CT of just that in other contexts).

It's a very distinctive form of statement, suggesting "We're not going to stop you, but we won't have anything to do with it." In other words, completely consistent.

Sauron the White · 12-22-2007, 01:22 PM

William - I do not think I would characterize it quite the way you did in your closing words , but thanks for your opinion.

zxcvbn · 12-22-2007, 09:38 PM

I got these pictures from the website of Daniel Reeve(the movie calligraphist). I'm not trying to bash Peter Jackson or anything. I love his movies. I was simply curious about this because if PJ was allowed to overstep rights restrictions in this manner, then it may be possible to incorporate material from Silmarillion and UT in future Middle Earth films(eg.'The Quest for Erebor' in the Hobbit).

William Cloud Hicklin · 12-23-2007, 08:01 AM

That would be a bridge too far. The Estate can't be bothered to make a stink over tiny visual elements in the background which only True Geeks would ever notice, but lifting entire narratives is a whole 'nother story. It's sort of like fanfic: the Estate is aware of it, but is perfectly willing to ignore it so long as nobody tries to sell the stuff. But put up a Tolkien e-text (or map) and you will recieve Manches LLC's loving attentions.

12-22-2007, 12:24 PM	#1
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	Aha! I thought you might take that line. The copyright statement in each of them reads "Published with permission but not approval of the Tolkien Estate." __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

12-22-2007, 12:56 PM	#3
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	As for royalties, I haven't the slightest idea. Personally I doubt it but that's based merely on a gut feeling, not evidence. Actually I think that unusual copyright statement represents walking a tightrope, avoiding the Scylla of actual approval, which would imply 'endorsement' or 'involvement', and the Charybdis of simply refusing and looking like obstructionist buttheads (not that it worked, since the PJ camp was happy to falsely accuse CT of just that in other contexts). It's a very distinctive form of statement, suggesting "We're not going to stop you, but we won't have anything to do with it." In other words, completely consistent. __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

12-23-2007, 08:01 AM	#6
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	That would be a bridge too far. The Estate can't be bothered to make a stink over tiny visual elements in the background which only True Geeks would ever notice, but lifting entire narratives is a whole 'nother story. It's sort of like fanfic: the Estate is aware of it, but is perfectly willing to ignore it so long as nobody tries to sell the stuff. But put up a Tolkien e-text (or map) and you will recieve Manches LLC's loving attentions. __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

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12-22-2007, 12:33 PM	#2
Sauron the White Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 903	WCH - a tip of my hat to you for being able to predict my Pavlovian response. But how about it? Permisssion, even without direct product or content approval, is still involvement is it not? And it does seem to fly in the face of the loud protestations that the Estate simply stood there while others exercised their rights accordingly and they have no comment or involvement of any kind. You may not know this for fact..... BUT ... do you think that permission came with any kind of royalty paid to the Estate?

12-22-2007, 01:22 PM	#4
Sauron the White Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 903	William - I do not think I would characterize it quite the way you did in your closing words , but thanks for your opinion.

12-22-2007, 09:38 PM	#5
zxcvbn Wight Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: In front of my PC Posts: 164	I got these pictures from the website of Daniel Reeve(the movie calligraphist). I'm not trying to bash Peter Jackson or anything. I love his movies. I was simply curious about this because if PJ was allowed to overstep rights restrictions in this manner, then it may be possible to incorporate material from Silmarillion and UT in future Middle Earth films(eg.'The Quest for Erebor' in the Hobbit).