Tolkien the freemason/ Priory of Sionist/Gnostic? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

davem · 12-14-2007, 12:34 AM

I'm quite sure Tolkien was familiar with Masonic/occult ideas & symbolism - Williams had been a member of the Golden Dawn & knew Crowley - or at least knew of him via Waite (a character in his novel 'All Hallows Eve' is clearly based on 'the Great Beast'), & Lewis was interested in such things in his younger, pre-Christian days. I can't believe such subjects didn't crop up during Inklings meetings given that Williams drew on his arcane knowledge for many of his 'spiritual thrillers'. Carpenter's 'The Inklings' is pretty good on this aspect of William's life.

Now whether Tolkien would have incorporated such ideas in his work is another question. He does distinguish between magia & goetia in one of his letters - which indicates that he didn't just lump such things into 'black magic' - he can throw around the terminology with some knowledge. Possibly he picked up bits & pieces from Inklings discussions & gave them his own unique 'spin'. None of which is to imply that he actually believed any of it.

William Cloud Hicklin · 12-14-2007, 11:52 AM

The US dollar first started to fall in value under Nixon in the early 1970's when he decoupled it from gold and allowed it to 'float' on the international market. While it is true the dollar had up to that point been hugely overvalued (360 yen and 4 Deutschmarks), that decision coupled with other factors were a significant part of the reason for the massive inflation of the later 70s.

The dollar's fall in 1984-85 had few adverse consequences as it was an organic response to ordinary balance-of-payments issues. The plunge this year, on the other hand, stems as much as anything from seeking a natural level vis-a-vis the artificially *undervalued* Chinese currency- complicated of course by spiking oil prices, and very low interest rates which make US securities unattractive to investors. Sarbanes-Oxley hasn't helped in that latter regard. So whether severe inflation results- we'll have to wait and see.

It is however interesting that so far the housing/subprime mess has caused little damage to the broader economy because the ~2% of GDP lost there has been mostly balanced by a 1.5%/GDP increase in exports- a result of the lower dollar.

Estelyn Telcontar · 12-14-2007, 12:18 PM

The dollar is not the topic being discussed here - back to Tolkien, please!

12-14-2007, 12:34 AM	#1
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	I'm quite sure Tolkien was familiar with Masonic/occult ideas & symbolism - Williams had been a member of the Golden Dawn & knew Crowley - or at least knew of him via Waite (a character in his novel 'All Hallows Eve' is clearly based on 'the Great Beast'), & Lewis was interested in such things in his younger, pre-Christian days. I can't believe such subjects didn't crop up during Inklings meetings given that Williams drew on his arcane knowledge for many of his 'spiritual thrillers'. Carpenter's 'The Inklings' is pretty good on this aspect of William's life. Now whether Tolkien would have incorporated such ideas in his work is another question. He does distinguish between magia & goetia in one of his letters - which indicates that he didn't just lump such things into 'black magic' - he can throw around the terminology with some knowledge. Possibly he picked up bits & pieces from Inklings discussions & gave them his own unique 'spin'. None of which is to imply that he actually believed any of it. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

12-14-2007, 11:52 AM	#2
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	The US dollar first started to fall in value under Nixon in the early 1970's when he decoupled it from gold and allowed it to 'float' on the international market. While it is true the dollar had up to that point been hugely overvalued (360 yen and 4 Deutschmarks), that decision coupled with other factors were a significant part of the reason for the massive inflation of the later 70s. The dollar's fall in 1984-85 had few adverse consequences as it was an organic response to ordinary balance-of-payments issues. The plunge this year, on the other hand, stems as much as anything from seeking a natural level vis-a-vis the artificially undervalued Chinese currency- complicated of course by spiking oil prices, and very low interest rates which make US securities unattractive to investors. Sarbanes-Oxley hasn't helped in that latter regard. So whether severe inflation results- we'll have to wait and see. It is however interesting that so far the housing/subprime mess has caused little damage to the broader economy because the ~2% of GDP lost there has been mostly balanced by a 1.5%/GDP increase in exports- a result of the lower dollar. __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

12-14-2007, 12:18 PM	#3
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	The dollar is not the topic being discussed here - back to Tolkien, please! __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode