The Ultimate Discourse About Gildor

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Well, off the top of my head I can think of 3 Sindarin/Noldorin examples

Ereinion 'descendant of kings'
Eldarion 'descendant of Elves' (might be Quenya)
Arathornion 'son of Arathorn'

However, these date from the late or post-LR period. When did Noldorin abandon the go-, bo- prefix as a patronymic?

[Galin]

I would say Eldarion is Quenya and might contain a patronymic.

Instead of Eldar-ion with a plural 'Elves' I think (not sure) it's possible we might have Elda-ri(g)-on with *rig- 'crown' plus a masculine, as similarly, perhaps, in Telperion, or more certainly the element 'crown' in Sindarin Galadriel 'Maiden crowned with gleaming hair'

On the other matter, good question. I can say without much delving (being lazy) that at the time Etymologies was being constructed go- was said to be used for patronymics in Ilkorin (go-Thingol).

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Galin

Right, I agree that's what it means. I mean the whole name is Sindarin, and the point I was making is that the explanation above is in a Quenya context. In other words, is -ion also a genitive in Sindarin?

No, Sindarin doesn't have genitive endings– it uses word-order and prepositions instead. Theoretically, "Inglorion" could just be a descriptive name or title, c.f. "Thalion"– except that as far as I'm aware it doesn't mean anything.

(I think "Inglor" is in fact meant to be a Sindarin adaption of a Quenya name.)

So I guess we're still left with Inglorion = "son or descendant of Inglor". Perhaps it's meant in a non-literal way?

By the way, "Eldarion" is definitely Quenya.

[Galin]

Etymologies aside, I think Inglor (Q. Ingalaure) means *Gold of the Ingar or (long version) 'the one with golden hair like that of the Ingar'. The Ingar being the folk of Ingwe, 'The Foremost' (Vinyar Tengwar 34)

__________

Edit: 'Gold of the Ingar' is based on texts in Morgoth's Ring however, as distinct from a look at Inglor at the time JRRT wrote the chapter where Gildor appears. On the name change, from the 'new' texts in Parma Eldalamberon 17:

'Certainly Finrod must become name of Felagund instead of Inglor, NOT of his father since 'Finrod' never left Valinor and could not have a 'Sindarized' name.' JRRT

JRRT then notes that the names of Finwe's sons were Kurufinwe, Nolofinwe and (Sara-,) Arafinwe -- adding that the mother-name of Arafinwe was Ingalaure (because his hair was golden, even more golden than the Vanyar). It is further noted that as originally written the mother-names of Arafinwe were 'Laurin or Ingalaur' the latter changed to Ingwelaure -- altered to Ingalaure. For an earlier reference to Inglor in Etymologies see root ID- *ídí 'heart, desire, wish' and etc.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Ceratinly in 1938 there was no problem with a Noldo having a Noldorin name!

I do note that the feminine patronymic -iel (Q. -ielle) came to have a general and very common meaning 'maiden'

I also could swear, but I can't find it, that in early drafts of the Lorien material Legolas is referred to as go-Thranduil. Of course, at the time both Leggy and the Galadhrim were conceived as being Ilkorins, so that doesn't help a lot.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Ceratinly in 1938 there was no problem with a Noldo having a Noldorin name!

Not in 1938, no

I can't seem to find 'go-Thranduil' in the one volume index to The History of Middle-Earth anyway -- 'go-Thingol' isn't noted there but that appears in an Etymologies entry. Go-Feanor and go-Maidros are noted in the index (hailing from HME I) for examples. Maybe it was missed? It seems you have checked the text already however (I didn't check the text myself).

[Gwathagor]

I don't find Gildor problematic, personally, since the elves as a whole play a minor role in the War of the Ring and even, more specifically, in the story (LotR) itself. Legolas accomplishes the least of all the members of the Company. Elven-folk as a whole, with their power and significance fading, are relegated to the role of counselor-along-the-way, rather than warrior and day-saver.