Inching closer to The Hobbit film

[Sauron the White]

HerenIstarion ... I do understand your point about not wanting to see all of our mundane daily existences played out on the screen. Perfectly clear on that and I agree with you. My point about kids as heroes is that it is way off the end of the Absurd-O-Meter. The average ten year old kid cannot even take the trash out thirty feet from the house and will sit there letting it stink up the house for days as long as they can still play their mindless video games. If you give them a two week assignment in class, you had better have daily reminders stressing how much time has passed and how close that deadline is. And then when the day arrives be prepared to read several poorly written notes from parents asking for extensions due to the most extreme of emergencies. I once (back in the early 70's) had a kid in junior high bring in a parental note asking to retake the final exam because they had polio over the weekend. Thats POLIO for heavens sake. Nobody gets polio for a few days and then recovers.

So watching some self absorbed pre-adolescents save the world is just not my cup of tea. That one middle kid in Narnia drove me absolutely crazy. I wanted him to get killed in the worst sort of way. He screws up everything for his brothers and sisters due to his own faults and then whines about it while everyone struggles to pull his bacon out of the fire. Gimmeabreak.

Yes, there are highly intelligent exceptional children. But tell me of an instance in reality where they saved the world.

Bilbo (and Frodo for the matter) was as unlikely 'to do a hero' as any kid would be to save the world (see above about what ifs, though), but the very fact they actually did is what makes it most astonishing wonderful

I would take issue with this. Bilbo and Frodo were not children. The possessed reason, maturity and intelligence and used it. They are part of the tradition used by many writers of having onrdinary people placed into extraordinary events and seeing them rise to the occassion. Stephen King has made a nice living off of that formula.

[HerenIstarion]

I rather tend to believe that things you do because you ought to may be perceptible and often are, as well may be doable and are often done regardless (and often against best advice provided by) 'reason, maturity and intelligence'. The very journey Bilbo (Frodo's may be argued for as his being reasonable, but his 'reason' ain't of a kind we commonly describe by the name, is it?) went on was against all three of them. He was well-off, lived in a healthy environment, had some entertainment, enjoyed good reputation, what did he need all dwarven gold for to go to loose all of the enjoyments he had and risk his life for it?

Thats POLIO for heavens sake

M-mm... people may be mistaken. If you ask me to tell you the difference between laryngitis and chill, I won't be able to. Maybe they've thought it was just another and cool sounding name for the same thing called in vulgar tongue chill...

But tell me of an instance in reality where they saved the world

There was this boy they have a statue of in Belgium... or maybe Holland...somewhere around those places I'm sure... he saved a town I believe, a town I forgot the name of though

You seem to be the exact opposite of the common (and strange to yours truly seem both cases, they do) perception of children as 'different race'. Just the other side tends to 'idolize' children and you seem to... my apologies if that's not the case but you do come across that way... to, well, feel about them as inferior and yet again 'different race'. Let's say they are just as human as adults are. So if human being is capable of saving the world in principle (are we? umm...), age mustn't be an issue.

Besides, you remember my mentioning 'suspension of disbelief' up there? If the inner rules of a book require it to be a child to be doing the saving, so be it - accept that as a given 'reality' and enjoy as you read along. Or don't read - I tend to abandon books/films midway I find myself incapable of believing in.

But lest I loose sight of our topic, let's go back to the Hobbit movie. It's a story supposedly written by a hobbit, it presents hobbitish perception of events, and only events seen first hand by certain hobbit. It can't possibly incorporate every horror and thrill that might have happened or have been rumoured to have happened but in fact haven't within 2,000 miles of Bilbo's route he could not have even known about. Let's name the movie 'Of the Ring Made, Lost and Found' and film nine parts of it starting with second age and making of the rings (lots of fighting going on, and lot of empty spaces for scriptwriters to fill in, eh?... Now that would be an endevour worth a praise. I'm only half joking. There is even a way to bring Viggo and Orlando back in there - the former would play a part of Elendur son of Isildur whom Aragorn greatly resembled, the latter may be Thranduil the father of Legolas and later on Legolas himself if need be. For a romance and psychological depth - Aldarion and Erendis. For great sea scenes - fleet of Numenor. Apocaliptical scenes of it's ruin. Great battle (parts already filmed) at Barad-Dur... Isildur's death (and Viggo Mortensen for Elendur. We may even tweak it a little and make him survive, to be in a way both Elendur who fought and died and Valandil who was in Rivendell and survived). Lots of things Gandalf might have been doing to entertain himself for 2,000 years he was about worth filming too...

But let us not name it the Hobbit, than (can't add any more smilies, imagine 'smokin' smiley here)

[Sauron the White]

HerenIstarion ........... when you work behind the scenes in a four star restaurant, you soon lose the romantic perceptions of it that the customers have. The same with teaching. I taught for 33 years and loved it. I went into that work because I wanted to make a contribution with my life and always thought that kids were the hope of the future. And I still do.

Having said that, you cannot spend 33 years teaching thousands and thousands of kids without the rose colored glasses coming off and facing reality right in the face. Unless you are an idiot. I loved my job and the kids were the absolute number one best thing about it. I met lots and lots of really terrific kids from the sixth grade up through the 12th where I spent my last two decades.

I was simply making a point about movies where they have these pre-adoloscent kids save the real world from bad guys - usually adults. These are movies made to kiss the collective behinds of kids for one reason and one reason only ---- to obtain their money. Who are these films aimed at? Not thinking adults. Probably not even non-thinking adults. They are aimed at kids of that same age who want to see themselves as the saviors of the universe since they already are convinced they are the true centers of the universe. If that sounds harsh, so be it but it is true and valid.

I asked you if a kid ever saved the world. You mentioned some kid in Holland who saved his town. Fine. Pat that child on the back and give them a parade. But in movie after movie, some kid (and why is it usually a bratty, isolated, totally self-absorbed kid) manages to rise up and save the world from the bad adults. It is simply a marketing idea that is way way way off the extreme end of the Absurd-O-Meter.

I can willingly suspend my disbelief with the best of them. But not for stuff like that. That is willing suspension of disbelief times 100. One of the few times this was done well was when Speilberg did it in ET. And I think his view of kids is far more realistic and less romantic than many others.

[HerenIstarion]

I again beg to differ

The very pattern of 'bratty, isolated, totally self-absorbed kid' 'rising up' seems positive concept to me. In 'real life' much more likely story would be the kid remaining isolated and self-absorbed, or becoming outwardly aggressive and bullyuing whilst inwardly remaning self-absorbed and weak. 'Only you can save mankind' is better message to plant for me than 'you are bratty and so will remain, noone understands what it is that makes you be, therefore, option A: whine your life away or option B: go to the boxing club to build up some muscle power and then show them all!

[davem]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7044649.stm .

"I would be disappointed if they didn't want to have the original Gandalf."

[Tuor in Gondolin]

A plus to PJ not being the dirctor could be
reprising a role as Saruman, since I believe
Christopher Lee wasn't happy with the handling of
Saruman's exit from movie LOTR and nonappearance
in movie ROTK.

In a movie Hobbit you could have a scene with the White Council
driving Sauron from Dol Guldur, although, as
JRRT realized, a weak point in LOTR is how to
handle Saruman becoming evil (going over to the
Dark Side ) without the apparently astute and
insightful Istari and elves realizing it.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Oh, no. No no no no no. Just film the book Tolkien wrote, dammit, and no bloody Hollywood 'inventions!'