The Autobiographical Tolkien - 'Leaf by Niggle'... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

davem · 08-28-2007, 02:42 PM

It seems to me - & I was discussing this elsewhere - that while the first part of Niggle may be seen as 'autobiographical', the second part (after he leaves on his 'journey') cannot be. It strikes me that it is more 'hope', or 'wishful thinking'. In other words its what he hopes his work will become - that it will be 'accepted' by the Voices, taken up & made something 'more', made 'Real'.

Yet he couldn't know that it would be. Part One is where he is, Part Two is where he hopes to be. Hence it could be argued that the least important part of LbN is the autobiographical part & the most important part the one that follows. And yet, the First Part would be simply 'bland', merely a resetting of his own life (or his perception of it), & tell us not very much. It is the 'dream' (or Dream) of what it will become that is significant - not the (allegorised) reality, but the Reality he hopes for. Hence it is not really 'autobiographical' at all. If Part To is an 'allegory' at all it is an allegory of his hope, of something that does not (or cannot be proved to) exist. One could almost call it a plea to the voices (& yet the Voices too are a Dream).

This calls into question his motivation, because for all he claims that his work has no 'meaning' or purpose beyond itself, it clearly does (in hope if not in actual fact). He desires that his work may be taken up & made into a Way beyond, in to & beyond the Mountains.

And yet, that being the case, was this little story the only way he could express that desire? He (it seems) could not state that his Legendarium would open a door to something greater, that it could open the gates of Heaven. That would be too much, too presumptious. But he could write a story about a little man, a painter, who painted a picture of a tree which proved to be a real Tree in a little land at the foot of the Mountains.

HerenIstarion · 08-29-2007, 02:25 AM

Generally being in agreement with you, davem, I have one tiniest bone to pick:

Quote:

Originally Posted by davem

He desires that his work may be taken up & made into a Way beyond, in to & beyond the Mountains

Not beyond the Mountains - the work (Niggle's Parish) stays this side of the range, it is Niggle himself who goes with the shepherd. Toklien has been more humble than that

Estelyn Telcontar · 03-15-2008, 02:47 PM

A new book has just been released by Walking Tree Publishers: Tolkien's Shorter Works. It has a chapter on this topic; even the title is identical to that of this thread, though it's not a plagiarism - the author has my permission!

I heard most of the papers it contains as lectures at last year's Tolkien Seminar here in Germany, and they are well worth reading - highly recommended!

Bêthberry · 03-15-2008, 07:47 PM

Well, authorial permission or not, I canna get that link or any other links to the book to work.

Kudos to that author who's interested in the autobiographical Tolkien though. It requires courage, persistence, patience, talent, to get something into real print as opposed to internet print. Well done!

Guinevere · 03-16-2008, 09:06 AM

I hope I will have occasion to buy this book in Jena at the Tolkien Seminar this spring !

Estelyn Telcontar · 03-16-2008, 10:49 AM

I'm sure you will - plus the opportunity to hear the contents of next year's publication. Walking Tree co-sponsers the seminar and always brings lots of interesting books along.

Guinevere · 03-16-2008, 11:32 AM

I'd better leave lots of spare space in my suitcase then!

08-28-2007, 02:42 PM	#1
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	It seems to me - & I was discussing this elsewhere - that while the first part of Niggle may be seen as 'autobiographical', the second part (after he leaves on his 'journey') cannot be. It strikes me that it is more 'hope', or 'wishful thinking'. In other words its what he hopes his work will become - that it will be 'accepted' by the Voices, taken up & made something 'more', made 'Real'. Yet he couldn't know that it would be. Part One is where he is, Part Two is where he hopes to be. Hence it could be argued that the least important part of LbN is the autobiographical part & the most important part the one that follows. And yet, the First Part would be simply 'bland', merely a resetting of his own life (or his perception of it), & tell us not very much. It is the 'dream' (or Dream) of what it will become that is significant - not the (allegorised) reality, but the Reality he hopes for. Hence it is not really 'autobiographical' at all. If Part To is an 'allegory' at all it is an allegory of his hope, of something that does not (or cannot be proved to) exist. One could almost call it a plea to the voices (& yet the Voices too are a Dream). This calls into question his motivation, because for all he claims that his work has no 'meaning' or purpose beyond itself, it clearly does (in hope if not in actual fact). He desires that his work may be taken up & made into a Way beyond, in to & beyond the Mountains. And yet, that being the case, was this little story the only way he could express that desire? He (it seems) could not state that his Legendarium would open a door to something greater, that it could open the gates of Heaven. That would be too much, too presumptious. But he could write a story about a little man, a painter, who painted a picture of a tree which proved to be a real Tree in a little land at the foot of the Mountains. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

03-15-2008, 02:47 PM	#3
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	A new book has just been released by Walking Tree Publishers: Tolkien's Shorter Works. It has a chapter on this topic; even the title is identical to that of this thread, though it's not a plagiarism - the author has my permission! I heard most of the papers it contains as lectures at last year's Tolkien Seminar here in Germany, and they are well worth reading - highly recommended! __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

03-15-2008, 07:47 PM	#4
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,005	Well, authorial permission or not, I canna get that link or any other links to the book to work. Kudos to that author who's interested in the autobiographical Tolkien though. It requires courage, persistence, patience, talent, to get something into real print as opposed to internet print. Well done! __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

03-16-2008, 09:06 AM	#5
Guinevere Banshee of Camelot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Switzerland Posts: 5,830	I hope I will have occasion to buy this book in Jena at the Tolkien Seminar this spring ! __________________ Yes! "wish-fulfilment dreams" we spin to cheat our timid hearts, and ugly Fact defeat!

03-16-2008, 10:49 AM	#6
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	I'm sure you will - plus the opportunity to hear the contents of next year's publication. Walking Tree co-sponsers the seminar and always brings lots of interesting books along. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

03-16-2008, 11:32 AM	#7
Guinevere Banshee of Camelot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Switzerland Posts: 5,830	I'd better leave lots of spare space in my suitcase then! __________________ Yes! "wish-fulfilment dreams" we spin to cheat our timid hearts, and ugly Fact defeat!

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