The Greatest Warrior...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

The fact that Turin takes on and defeats Morgoth in the final battle rather suggests to me that, in the scheme of things, he is the greatest warrior.

Well, I thought of that same when I wrote my first post, but I didn't want to post it since I thought it's not that "canonical", and then I forgot it. Yes, taken from this point of view, I would say so as well (cf. my first post).

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Raynor

But how relevant is that?

I would have thought it not just relevant but entirely compelling. Taking down the ultimate source of evil is surely the 'greatest' feat that a warrior can perform.

Or are we just talking most powerful warrior ...?

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

I would have thought it not just relevant but entirely compelling. Taking down the ultimate source of evil is surely the 'greatest' feat that a warrior can perform.

Or are we just talking most powerful warrior ...?

In my opinion, we don't have sufficient information to conclude anything about Turin's power based on the result of that contest. If he is sufficiently weakened by the other opponent(s) I mentioned, then it would not take the greatest fighter ever to bring him down.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Raynor

In my opinion, we don't have sufficient information to conclude anything about Turin's power based on the result of that contest. If he is sufficiently weakened by the other opponent(s) I mentioned, then it would not take the greatest fighter ever to bring him down.

You misunderstand me. I am not talking about whether Turin was most powerful, skilful etc warrior. But he was the warrior who achieved the ultimate greatness, and so, surely, the greatest warrior of Arda.

[Hammerhand]

Aye, but didn't Turin return from the Halls of the Dead to vanquish Melko? It confuses me the amount of endings!

So we are in a majority of Fongolfin being in the top... as with Turin.

Are there any backers for Fingon? Hurin? or Ecthelion? or any others you feel we need to discuss?

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

You misunderstand me. I am not talking about whether Turin was most powerful, skilful etc warrior. But he was the warrior who achieved the ultimate greatness, and so, surely, the greatest warrior of Arda.

I disagree with this logic. If the bulk of the merit for defeating Melkor would go either Fionwe, Tulkas or Earendil, then giving the greatest title to the guy that gives the last punch does not seem appropriate to me. That last blow might be something purely "formal", and we don't know either way. Then again, we might have to agree to disagree.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Raynor

If the bulk of the merit for defeating Melkor would go either Fionwe, Tulkas or Earendil, then giving the greatest title to the guy that gives the last punch does not seem appropriate to me.

But who got the credit for it?

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

But who got the credit for it?

Turin; however, I still believe that your judgment is more personal than general. Not to mention that in HoME XII, it is Ancalagon that Turin kills, not Melkor

Originally Posted by Note 17, The problem of Ros, HoME XII

The language of the Folk of Haleth was not used, for they had perished and would not rise again. Nor would their tongue be heard again, unless the prophecy of Andreth the Wise-woman should prove true, that Turin in the Last Battle should return from the Dead, and before he left the Circles of the World for ever should challenge the Great Dragon of Morgoth, Ancalagon the Black, and deal him the death-stroke.