Off the Map

[davem]

Tolkien Library has news of a new letter by Tolkien: http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/...r_for_sale.php

Now, what's interesting about this to me is the following comment by Tolkien:

He then comments on the origins of Honeybourne’s surname and notes that
"It’s such a good name that I must, in any future, more complete map of the Shire (often asked for), find a place for it. It is one of the comparatively rare place-names that means what it says: a stream, of sweet water and/or flowing through flowery-meads."

Taken in conjunction with the All-Welcome Inn which was added in the 1960 Hobbit re-write it shows that Tolkien was still inventing the Shire. The second invention here - the Inn is perhaps less interesting, in that it was Tolkien's own invention to add depth to the story, but for him to be inspired to add a new water feature to the Shire simply because a Miss Honeybourne happened to write to him is fascinating. I wonder where it would have been placed? A stream flowing through flowery meads perhaps implies a water meadow.

The idea that a correspondent's name could produce an addition to the Shire in this way perhaps opens up a bigger question about what, exactly, contributed to the 'leaf-mould' of the mind. We are familiar with the 'usual' sources, myth, folklore, sagas & the like, but a correspondent's name???

Plus, how many writers would pay so much attention to a name - to the extent that they would be so inspired to add to their creation?

[Raynor]

But isn't this in line with his famous comment on the relation of precedence that language has for him, in regards to stories?

Originally Posted by Letter #163

All this only as background to the stories, though languages and names are for me inextricable from the stories. They are and were so to speak an attempt to give a background or a world in which my expressions of linguistic taste could have a function. The stories were comparatively late in coming.

In the light of this, the case you mentioned wouldn't be an exception... quite the contrary

[davem]

Originally Posted by Raynor

But isn't this in line with his famous comment on the relation of precedence that language has for him, in regards to stories?

In the light of this, the case you mentioned wouldn't be an exception... quite the contrary

Possibly - though I read that statement as referring to his own invented names. The idea that a correspondent's name could inspire a new geographical feature is incredibly interesting to me.

I wonder if he took the idea any further - is there another Shire map out there that Tolkien was working on with the Honeybourne stream on it?

[Lalwendë]

It's a shame he never heard mine or he'd have added that to the Shire too The warden at Balliol was fascinated by it and he wasn't the last...

I suspect that some other Hobbitish names and words stemmed from real world names - I know one Proudfoot (if I ever meet her husband I could yell "Proudfeet!"). There are Bucklands and Pippins too. This could certainly be well worth investigating further!

If he was fascinated by real world names which had a mellifluous or arresting sound and shape he would not be alone - I can think of dozens of place names in particular which suggest all kinds of interesting things.

[Raynor]

In the LotR nomenclature, there are several "genuine English surnames" that appear in the book, where their meaning is related to the story (Bracegirdle, Brockhouse, Fairbarns, Sackville). Places found in the real world (or other writtings) too are Archet, Bamfurlong, Bree, Crack of Doom, Mirkwood. For things' names, we have Lithe and Yule (and all the other Shire Calendar month names) and possibly Pukel.

[davem]

Hmmm

But the interesting thing to my mind is the way this shows how the world of M-e was always in flux. Clearly Tolkien never saw the world as 'finished'. He would add in Inns & streams & such when the inspiration took him, & something as simple as a correspondent's name could lead to new additions to his world.

As I said, what interests me is the way such 'little' things could produce new aspects of his world, go into the leaf mould of the mind.

Of course, we're all familiar, as I pointed out, with the 'big' things that went into the 'soup', but aren't the little things intriguing too? And how many of these sources will be forever hidden? Its easy to write essays, even whole books, on Tolkien's inspirations - The Eddas, the Kalevala, the Sagas of Icelanders & such, but what were the little things - & were they, in their way, just as important? What if Miss Honeybourne hadn't written that letter - because even if Tolkien didn't put the 'Honeybourne' stream/watermeadow into another map, even if he forgot the whole idea a few hours after penning that letter, for a short time at least there was a spot in The Shire where a little stream of sweet water ran through flowery meadows.... And before he received that letter it hadn't. It came into being purely because she wrote to him.

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by davem

But the interesting thing to my mind is the way this shows how the world of M-e was always in flux. Clearly Tolkien never saw the world as 'finished'.

I agree and I believe you are not implying revision here. He did state that the work itself was finished, that he cannot substantially alter it. Adding some new names on a map, in a manner that would not alter the story, would not contradict this statement from letter #131.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Raynor

I agree and I believe you are not implying revision here. He did state that the work itself was finished, that he cannot substantially alter it. Adding some new names on a map, in a manner that would not alter the story, would not contradict this statement from letter #131.

Aah, but the thing about Middle-earth is that the world seems to exist apart from the story that happens in it. And that's what interests me (though actually he did make small alterations to the story after it was first finished - 1st edition refers to the Golden House of Finrod, 2nd to the Golden House of Finarfin, however, I digress...). The story may have been finished, but the world, in small ways at least, was not - he could add - or perhaps we should say 'discover' new places as the whim took him.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

1st edition refers to the Golden House of Finrod, 2nd to the Golden House of Finarfin, however, I digress

Not exactly. The 2nd edition retained "Finrod" in that line. It's so given in my ca. 1970 printing. Changed first to Finarphin and then Finarfin post- 1973 on Christopher's recommendation. And "Gildor Inglorion of the House of Finrod" has never been emended.

[davem]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hickli

Not exactly. The 2nd edition retained "Finrod" in that line. It's so given in my ca. 1970 printing. Changed first to Finarphin and then Finarfin post- 1973 on Christopher's recommendation. And "Gildor Inglorion of the House of Finrod" has never been emended.

I stand corrected. I only have a 1965/6 first edition & a 1992 second ed along with the fifthieth anniversary h/b's.