Eorling Mead Hall Planning/Discussion Thread

[Nogrod]

It would be nice to know when Lhuna has time to write. I think she promised this weekend. Here in Finland (+3GMT) it's late Saturday evening - like 10PM - so with Lhuna it's even later. So I gather she will not post in the next few hours...

So maybe I can post something within an hour or two to build up the situation? Let's hope Lhuna gets online after she wakes up on Sunday (it's probably Sunday there already but anyway).

I'll start thinking a post...

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It would be nice to know when Lhuna has time to write. I think she promised this weekend. Here in Finland (+3GMT) it's late Saturday evening - like 10PM - so with Lhuna it's even later. So I gather she will not post in the next few hours...

I've gotten into the habit (from WW) of expecting Lhuna to post during the opposite 12 hours of the day from me, here on the Eastern Daylight Time Zone of the U.S. So right now it's roughly 3 a.m. by her. Yeah, she may be a night owl, but I figure we'll need to wait another 6 hours at least before she posts.

[Nogrod]

Allright.

I have moved the scene a bit forwards now. And I have taken some liberties with it. Hopefully not too many. Please inform me and I can change anything you think should be changed.

Eala: I thought that Ghem would attack as the noise from the passage came louder and louder and if they wished to make a run for it they'd have to do it sooner than later - and when Ulric caught Stigend's attention with his taunting that would have been the perfect moment for it.

------
EDIT-NOTICE: The discussion on the relative positions of the people in the kitchen contained such a lot of errors that I have deleted that part of this post entirely. Read lmp's take on the relative positions.

[Folwren]

IF I write a post for Thornden, he'll be running up from the courtyard of the alder tree, I think. And I believe Falco is out there as well. Isn't there a door from the kitchen to that courtyard? Did one of the outlaws shut and lock both exits from the kitchen (i.e. the one to the corridor and the one out in the courtyard)?

-- Folwren

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Isn't there a door from the kitchen to that courtyard? Did one of the outlaws shut and lock both exits from the kitchen (i.e. the one to the corridor and the one out in the courtyard)?

One of the outlaws locked the door out (to the alder court) but he couldn't have locked the one to the corridor leading to the hall as I think there is not one - at least yet - and if there were, he wouldn't have had time to do it anyhow...

But yes Falco is in the courtyard and now they will be hearing the sounds of a fight from inside...

Although someone needs to come in from the corridor - or through the outdoor - pretty soon as Stigend can't hold the three outlaws just by himself...

[littlemanpoet]

I've added the directions of the compass to "Plan 7" for the attached Eorling Mead Hall map. I hope that helps.

I forgot there were so many doors to the kitchen! Okay, here's how it works:

The NE door is to the Great Hall, and Eodwine and "Elborn" are running down it toward the kitchen. Apprently Ghem is closest to this one, which was contrary to how I had been reading Eala's posts; I had figured Ghem to be closest to the SE door.

The NW door is to the alder court, and is locked (as of the post just before Nogrod's which I haven't read yet), outside of which are Falco and apparently Thornden if Foley writes it that way.

Stigend is, as of the end of his most recent post, in between these two doors.

The SE door leads to the back yard, so to speak, and was the one I thought Ghem was closest to, through which he could have made a solo escape. Now I don't know what to expect.

The SW door is the one to the cellar, from which the outlaws have come.

The oven is in the North wall, and some other doohickey, I don't know what it is, is in the south wall; shelves? I would imagine that where the word "kitchen" is in the map, is a table on which Ginna was chopping whatever it was she was chopping; and now Stigend has it between himself and Withold & Ginna, and Ulric and Rowenna, while Ghem is apparently to his right.

Everybody clear on that? Any questions? Any corrections to this needed?

Finally, it's time for Eodwine to appear in the kitchen. So I'll write a post. I'll describe "Elborn" coming into the room right behind him, and the way I see it, Eodwine is going to keep moving forward until he has blocked the SE door, whilst Elborn stays in the way of the NE door, effectivley forcing Ghem to escape through the Alder court; I would expect Ulric and Withold to follow suit if they have any intentions of getting out of there alive. I'll leave Elborn's role pretty vague so that Eala can write what she wants.

[Folwren]

Hm. What do you think the scale is on your maps, Elempi? Looking at it, I realize Thornden and Leof may not have been able to hear Stigend, they were so far off and with so many walls between them all. What do you all think? They're in the stable, which is rather far from the kitchen.

-- Folwren

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, everyone please stop and take a deep breath. And exhale again.

Thank you.

First I want to set up expectations for us all: we are all of us sensitive about our own writing. Criticism of another's writing is stepping into tricky waters where the currents are fast and changing and it's very easy to lose one's footing .... especially if English is our second language. So....

If you have a problem with the structure of someone's story telling, send me a PM about it. An example would be the degree to which the outlaws can have free movement in confined quarters while their opponents stand with weapons ready. I will look into the issue and make a decision. That's my job. That way you can be angry with me, or not, and I'm quite happy to live with that if necessary.

If you have a problem with what someone else posted because it conflicts with what you just posted, courteously say so on this discussion thread.

If you have ideas as to how things might play out in the storyline, please say so here; if another writer chooses not to accept your ideas for his or her character, you simply need to live with it.

If you find another writer insulting or offensive in discussions, please PM me about it instead of answering the writer directly. I'll take a look and find (I hope) an amicable solution. You're quite free to be angry with me if you don't like my decision, I can handle it.

If another puts words in the mouth of your character, or gives actions to your character, that don't fit your character, courteously request a change.

Thank you.

Now for my thoughts on the current situation.

I would like Eala to put her post back up. What I saw of it on my short lunch break looked pretty good to me, although it conflicted with that which I had just cross-posted. Where I see contradictions between her post and mine, I will revise my post as needed; if I see any specifics that I feel the need for Eala to change hers, I'll let her know. But I don't think I'll be asking for much change in her post, especially since she has been very quick to change her posts for the sake of others lately. Specifically, I'm thinking of having the blacksmith twins come in AFTER the action in Eala's post, which should remove any contradictions, and still give Stigend the opportunity Noggie wishes for.

One more aspect of this issue: how much free movement does an outlaw have in a hostage situation? A lot. The outlaws are the ones threatening the lives of people dear to those who are besieging the hostages. Therefore, Eodwine will shout down any sudden movements from his own people in order to save Ginna and Rowenna from any harm, much less possible death. That's my decision. You may be angry with me if you like. I'm okay with it.

[Folwren]

I'd like to say real quick that I...really...am not here until Friday. I'm at camp and can only check this like once a day for about two minutes at a time. So don't make any plans around me. Or, if you do, make plans that are able to wait acouple days yet.

Sorry.

-- Foley

[Nogrod]

I'm breathing freely and will settle with any decisions you people come up with...

Sorry if something I've said has annoyed anyone.

[Ealasaide]

My edited post will be back up sometime tomorrow. Unfortunately the only remaining copy is on my office computer and I am at home today.

[littlemanpoet]

One additional thing to keep in mind about working with the plot twists in other writers' posts is that "Time" is fluid. You need not be stuck in thinking that your character is in "suspended animation", as it were, for the duration of other people's posts. So your posts can cover the same plot time as all the previous posts for which it makes sense.

For example, Elempi is posting that Harreld is stomping down the hallway and then stops and then roars and charages. During that same time-period, Noggie can have Stigend do something completely independently, because Elempi has made no comment on Stigend's character.

If I'm saying something you already know and you're wondering why I'm bothering, just let it pass; if this helps, great.

[littlemanpoet]

Are people waiting for me to revise my post before continuing? I was waiting for Eala to re-post her post, after which I was going to revise mine and carry the Harreld bit into a new post. Just checking.

Another trick that we might find helpful: Other writers have their characters do surprising things, to which our first reaction may be, "But my character would have done such and such in the middle of that action! - - I need to ask that writer to revise accordingly." That's the obvious way to go, but there's a better way - a Tolkienian way.

The Tolkienian way went like so: Tollers would make up an Elvish word, then find himself asking the question, "well how did that word come to be?" Then he'd write a story about it.

So when something doesn't happen the way you expected, ask yourself, "Now, why didn't my character do such and such when that character did so and so?" Then use your imagination to see what kind of answer you come up with. You might surprise yourself that what results turns out to be better and more interesting than going with the original plan.

[Lhunardawen]

I'm so sorry, this weekend was busier than I expected... Catching up now...

EDIT: Post up. Heh. Ginna's such a silly girl..

[Ealasaide]

Eh... I haven't read the new posts to the thread yet, but at the end of my post, Ghem was closest to the door from the Alder court, not the door to the Great Hall.

I'm off to read the new developments now!

[Nogrod]

I'm going to edit my last post a little bit to straighten out some of my misconceptions...

Does it look reasonable if the situation is described now as the following:

Ulric and Rowenna are somewhere near the top-right corner of the kitchen (SW door leading to the cellar)?

Ghem is at the bottom-right corner (NW door leading to the Alder Court)?

Stigend is to the left from Ghem, somewhere in the bottom-middle between the corridor-door (NE) and the Alder Court door (NW)?

Withold and Ginna are about in the middle of the kitchen?

Lord Eodwine has just reached the "back-door" top-left (SE door)? And Elborn is somewhere in the middle of the left left-side between the corridor-door (NE) and the backdoor (SE) - or possibly still at the corridor-door?

I'll change my post accordingly if this looks like a reasonable description...

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Hm. What do you think the scale is on your maps, Elempi? Looking at it, I realize Thornden and Leof may not have been able to hear Stigend, they were so far off and with so many walls between them all. What do you all think? They're in the stable, which is rather far from the kitchen.

Darn it, once upon a time I had distances all figured out. I seem to recall deciding that the guest rooms were 8x8, making the guest room wing width out at 20 feet, so I'll go with that. See the attached for a map of scale.

I'd accuse you guys of driving me nuts with your questions, but I'd be lying. I love 'em.

So anyway, if Thornden and Léof are down by the stables, with at least two walls between and roughly 90 feet away, they'd hear something loud but vague over the roof of the guest room wing. You decide.

Noggie, your revised estimated locations look right to me.

[Ealasaide]

Looks reasonable to me, Nogrod!

[Nogrod]

Okay. I will edit my last post with this placement in mind - tomorrow as now I need to sleep now.

But please Ealaside, I think it might be your "turn"...
(Not that no one else could write, but now Lhuna, lmp and myself have posted the last as active characters in this scene - and it's possible that Foley needs to wait until someone breaks free from the Alder court door to take part... or she might have her own ideas...)

But anyhow. I don't think it will be only lord Eodwine and Elborn who rush in... At least Garwine should be in there as soon as the aforementioned people - and Garstan I think at least... So even if the writers of all the people are not around online most of the people in the MH would have been at the "ceremony" and thence heard the alarm and so at least the adult males would have gotten in to help their eorl... or what do you say?