THIS exists in M-E? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Feanorsdoom · 06-04-2007, 03:20 AM

No, Morwen, it was swords, specifically, but it's been answered both ways. My problem wasn't that they are there at all, but that they appeared as soon as needed, and swords are a very specialized weapon. It stands to reason, though, that they had both Melkor's influence early enough as well as plenty of time on the road to Valinor to develop pretty sophisticated weapons. One might ask the Valar how they started getting forged under their noses, but that's a whole other question.

Morwen · 06-04-2007, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Feanorsdoom

One might ask the Valar how they started getting forged under their noses, but that's a whole other question.

I suppose the Noldor were a tricksy bunch.

Still, the Noldor were probably always working on some new invention or other. So the Valar may not have immediately connected any surge in smithying with an arms race.

William Cloud Hicklin · 06-04-2007, 01:12 PM

After all Mahtan was a smith, and apparently devoid of any (conscious) evil intent, yet he it was who taught smithying to Feanor, especially the tempering of steel. It strikes me that the /idea/ of a sword isn't that great a reach*; it's the metallurgy required to make a decent one; and this Mahtan or other Noldor (advised by Aule) could well have developed out of sheer techno-curiosity, or endeavoring to produce better wood-axes, kitchen knives, and hunting weapons.

* The Aztecs had them, if you count a series of obsidian blades embedded in a stick as a 'sword.'

Feanorsdoom · 06-04-2007, 04:51 PM

I meant that the Valar are arguably naive by design, and seem to miss much that Elves or humans would be suspicious about. The Noldor building arms and armor for war in Valinor would be incomprehensible to them; what possible reason would they have to fight in paradise? Manwe himself is said to believe that Melkor was reformed, although Tulkas looked askance at him. Knowing the omen of Miriel's death, they should have at least been vigilant of other possibilities. If the Elves indeed had to fight off predators and monsters across M-e to get there, the Valar should at least have been wary of the well-trained, meat-eating fighters in their midst.

Sorry, off on a tangent, but there aren't that many modern marvels in M-e. Are there any out-of-place mechanics in Dale?

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06-04-2007, 03:20 AM	#1
Feanorsdoom Animated Skeleton Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 27	No, Morwen, it was swords, specifically, but it's been answered both ways. My problem wasn't that they are there at all, but that they appeared as soon as needed, and swords are a very specialized weapon. It stands to reason, though, that they had both Melkor's influence early enough as well as plenty of time on the road to Valinor to develop pretty sophisticated weapons. One might ask the Valar how they started getting forged under their noses, but that's a whole other question.

06-04-2007, 01:12 PM	#3
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	After all Mahtan was a smith, and apparently devoid of any (conscious) evil intent, yet he it was who taught smithying to Feanor, especially the tempering of steel. It strikes me that the /idea/ of a sword isn't that great a reach; it's the metallurgy required to make a decent one; and this Mahtan or other Noldor (advised by Aule) could well have developed out of sheer techno-curiosity, or endeavoring to produce better wood-axes, kitchen knives, and hunting weapons. The Aztecs had them, if you count a series of obsidian blades embedded in a stick as a 'sword.'

06-04-2007, 04:51 PM	#4
Feanorsdoom Animated Skeleton Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 27	I meant that the Valar are arguably naive by design, and seem to miss much that Elves or humans would be suspicious about. The Noldor building arms and armor for war in Valinor would be incomprehensible to them; what possible reason would they have to fight in paradise? Manwe himself is said to believe that Melkor was reformed, although Tulkas looked askance at him. Knowing the omen of Miriel's death, they should have at least been vigilant of other possibilities. If the Elves indeed had to fight off predators and monsters across M-e to get there, the Valar should at least have been wary of the well-trained, meat-eating fighters in their midst. Sorry, off on a tangent, but there aren't that many modern marvels in M-e. Are there any out-of-place mechanics in Dale?