'Pre-baptised'

Originally Posted by Rulavi

We must have read different fantasy novels . I usually have had the opposite experience: if there's a book that speaks to me, it's despite the cover (and any other illustrations) not because of it. And often in such cases it's the content that's "beautiful, mysterious & evocative"; the pictures fail because they are too (and wrongly) specific. Movies similarly, natch, though it's somewhat easier for a movie: it doesn't need to capture it in a single scene and can take longer to get you used to their vision. Two exceptions: many of Pauline Baynes' illustrations for Narnia seemed just right, and the Shire in the LOTR movies was immediately, and continues to be, very satisfying to me.

Another case I should have mentioned: Howard Pyle, where the pictures are at least as good as the text.

[davem]

Can't help thinking of Simone d'Ardenne's reminiscence, where she said to Tolkien: `You broke the veil, didn't you, and passed through?' and she adds that he `readily admitted' having done so."

It seems she was referring to language, but Tolkien may have understood her question differently. 'Breaking the veil' seems like an apt title for the painting I linked to. Tolkien, one could say, 'broke the veil' & showed us what lies beyond - or at least gave us a glimpse of it. There is an awesome realm beyond, & our own smallness is revealed to us by what we are shown. Yet, as Lewis states, it is not a place that is forever denied to us - we are given that glimpse because whatever it is that lies beyond is somewhere we have a right to be - if I understand him. The original glimpse is brief - we may even miss it, but if we are open to what we see the next glimpse may be longer & clearer.

Managed to find a better pic of the painting ('Breaking the Veil' as I shall call it from now on) Hope it works

Originally Posted by davem

'Breaking the veil' seems like an apt title for the painting I linked to. Tolkien, one could say, 'broke the veil' & showed us what lies beyond - or at least gave us a glimpse of it. There is an awesome realm beyond, & our own smallness is revealed to us by what we are shown. Yet, as Lewis states, it is not a place that is forever denied to us - we are given that glimpse because whatever it is that lies beyond is somewhere we have a right to be - if I understand him. The original glimpse is brief - we may even miss it, but if we are open to what we see the next glimpse may be longer & clearer.

Managed to find a better pic of the painting ('Breaking the Veil' as I shall call it from now on) Hope it works

Another Lewis tie-in: the whole story of his Pilgrim's Regress centers on a boy drawn by ineffable longing to a beautiful Island that he glimpses far in the West. He abandons his native Puritania, with the frowning Landlord's Castle overlooking it from across the river to the east, and travels westward in search of the Island. When he finally stands on the far sea-shore and can see the Island clearly across the waters, he realizes it is the Landlord's Castle seen from the other side, and he travels back around the world to cross the river to get there. A rather Chestertonian conceit grafted onto something like the Breaking-The-Veil vision. (With a lot of undoubtedly clever but often esoteric and obscure allegory and satire grafted onto that. Quite unlike Lewis' other writings.)

(Lewis & Tolkien, I'm pretty sure, would say not that we have a right to be there, but that through the Mercy we may be given that right.)

[davem]

Originally Posted by Rulavi

(Lewis & Tolkien, I'm pretty sure, would not say that we have a right to be there, but that through the Mercy we may be given that right.)

Hmmm... well, I'd say it was our birthright, but is ours to accept or reject. But then, I don't share their faith....

[Durelin]

I think my "pre-baptising" sort of deal for my love of Middle-earth and fantasy worlds in general was the way I used to play when I was younger. Actually, my dad used to play with my brother and I quite often, and there were times when we'd do humongous (at least as I remember them) "set ups" that would spread through our living room or the downstairs room, or sometimes over both. We'd combine all sorts of toys, like Playmobil and Legos and Star Wars action figures, or sometimes Barbie dolls and large super hero figures (Barbie was always taller than the super heroes, though, which I guess might be why I hate it when women feel like they should be with men who are taller than them and when guys get all weird about tall women...well, that and I was taller than all the boys my age until they finally hit their growth spurts in late junior high and high school...but anyway...). My dad would even make things himself to look like various scenery. I'm sure it was all incredibly simple but it was so real to my brother and I back then.

And we'd...have adventures. Those "set ups" became little worlds to me, and I played as a character or characters, as a little Playmobil person or as Johnny Quest or Mara Jade or someone, and I loved being that character in that world. And I guess as we get older our worlds need to get a little more elaborate than Legos and Styrofoam and such.

I suppose that just the way I played as a child is behind my love of fantasy and particularly of such vastness as Middle-earth (and of roleplaying).

That was probably more information about my life than you needed, but it's all memorable stuff....

[drigel]

nice thread

For me way early was Tales of Alladin and Sinbad. RE Howard (Conan) a little later... cinema would have to be The 300 Spartans. A total cheese movie (for even back then really), but there I was in the backyard - trashcan lid for a shield and a broom for a spear.....

Originally Posted by Durelin

I think my "pre-baptising" sort of deal for my love of Middle-earth and fantasy worlds in general was the way I used to play when I was younger. Actually, my dad used to play with my brother and I quite often, and there were times when we'd do humongous (at least as I remember them) "set ups" that would spread through our living room or the downstairs room, or sometimes over both. We'd combine all sorts of toys,

Right! I suppose most of us were thinking of more literary precursors to ME, but this sort of thing was certainly important for me and probably a good many others. Thank you for bringing it to mind!

Originally Posted by davem

Hmmm... well, I'd say it was our birthright, but is ours to accept or reject. But then, I don't share their faith....

Yes, our birthright, but a birthright we have spurned and lost. The Good News is that it is offered to us again.

[Sir Kohran]

There was this old computer game, called Asghan The Dragon Slayer. Basically, it involves a big tough warrior with a big sword (what else?) going around this enemy island killing various baddies to eventually kill his evil uncle, the sorcerer Morghan, who had killed Asghan's father. Although it sounds very generic hack'n'slash (and frankly it is) I enjoyed it a lot as a kid, and now I see it as my first real introduction to the fantasy genre, and also to Middle-Earth itself - looking back on it now, one of Asghan's friends was called 'Capon the hobbit', he drank 'elvish drink' to keep his health up, many of the monsters were called orcs, and here's the big one - the company that made it was called 'Silmarils'

That game was simple and nothing very big, but it made me want to do more with this wonderful, magical world I had found and Tolkien was the real deal that it led to.

Excellent Question. I would have loved to have discovered that Norse mythology had primed me for Tolkien, just has it had originally inspired Tolkien himself.
Note: "inspired" = in - spirit = indwelling spirit
But no, yet just as comically what primed me for Tolkien was old Godzilla movies.
The image of the dragon, you see.
I did not explore Norse mythology until much later, and actually, have rejected my former religion in favor of Wotanism. My place in Vahalla is assured. I am a Warrior of the Rainbow Bridge, Acoltye of Hiemdoll, and Bezerker of Wotan, Wielder of the Divine Bolts.

Originally Posted by davem

Can't help thinking of Simone d'Ardenne's reminiscence, where she said to Tolkien: `You broke the veil, didn't you, and passed through?' and she adds that he `readily admitted' having done so."

It seems she was referring to language, but Tolkien may have understood her question differently. 'Breaking the veil' seems like an apt title for the painting I linked to. Tolkien, one could say, 'broke the veil' & showed us what lies beyond - or at least gave us a glimpse of it.

If you think about it, "breaking" the veil is an odd collocation of words, a kind of mixing of metaphors. "Breaking through the veil" is better, perhaps? But even there you expect more of a solid barrier than a yielding one. Frodo didn't "break through" Shelob's webs, but had to cut his way through. "Parting", or if violence or impatience is needed, "tearing" or "rending" the veil?

The picture, to me, is more of a parting of the veil/clouds: the viewer is, in that sense, passive (though in another sense gloriously participative). If any rending is going on, it is someone else who is doing it.

Actually, you'd already said it that way, Davem:

Suddenly the mist parts, just for a moment, & you see that, & then its gone again. Of course, you'd be terrified, yet it would be like seeing a glimpse of another reality. The world would suddenly seem much bigger & much stranger than you had ever thought. And however terrifying the experience had been I suspect your desire to know more would have been stronger.